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'White enclaves' get cash to combat extremism
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mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:11 am Post subject:

Looks like the Bronx might need some of that cash too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/nyregion/20africans.html?_r=1

Quote:

For African Immigrants, Bronx Culture Clash Turns Violent

The owner of Caf� de C.E.D.E.A.O., named for the coalition of West African nations, envisioned it as a community hub in the Bronx neighborhood of Claremont, where Americans would try his wife�s cassava soup and realize it�s not so foreign after all. But a year in, the owner, Mohammed M. Barrie, said he could count the number of American patrons on one hand.

Meanwhile, he and his customers have been taunted, he said, and his restaurant�s window urinated on. Someone tried to break into a diner�s car. Then there is the bullet hole in the front window, a mark from a gunshot through the window late one night last summer.

�Those people, they don�t respect African people,� said Mr. Barrie, a Sierra Leone native who settled in the United States in 1998. �I pay my bills, I pay my taxes, they still ...� He trailed off.

Down the block, Muhammed Sillah sat in a folding chair in front of the tiny Al Tawba mosque, eyeing the jungle gym across the street and remembering when he used to let his children play outside.

�Spanish kids, American kids � but no African kids,� said Mr. Sillah, a Gambian mechanic raising five children in Claremont. �We�re scared.�

Their fear and frustration are shared by many local West African immigrants, whose fast-growing presence in the neighborhood � and in the city over all � has been accompanied by increasing tensions with the local black American residents.

�They think they�re better than black people,� James Carroll, a retired Army specialist standing in front of a busy convenience store, said of the West African immigrants. �We�re supposed to be one community � we�re supposed to be able to get along � but they don�t give it a chance.�

Some of the tension can be attributed to cultural differences that all immigrants face, though the West Africans in Claremont, as conservative Muslims, have the added challenge of adjusting to a post-9/11 New York. But resentment and mistrust has escalated to actual violence, and, they say, left them feeling under siege.

After reports of nearly two dozen attacks on West African immigrants in the last two years, community leaders reached out to the police, who interviewed 17 Africans in the neighborhood and filed 11 criminal complaints. Two of those were deemed hate crimes, including an attack in June that left a Gambian immigrant hospitalized for eight days. They have made no arrest in either bias case, but a police mobile truck with a video camera now stands outside the mosque.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

zipper wrote:

mises wrote:

zipper wrote:

If everyone was economically secured, then I doubt there would be a big problem.

And what role do you think unskilled immigration has played in creating economic insecurity among the low-end of the working class?

I would image a very significant role; especially if the economies tail spin into a severe recession.

It it mean. Every society has a large group of almost-unemployable. They use their backs to earn their daily bread. To import a group of people who will work for less is just mean. And it is dangerous.

So it goes. Business wants to pay less for manual labour and political organizations see permanent future majorities. The average almost-unemployable receives cat calls about his ignorance when he speaks about how the situation is lowering his standard of living. Divide and conquer.

Finally you've stopped blaming the 'multi cults' for immigration and recognised the real reasons we have 'cultural diversity.' Well done.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject:

blade wrote:

mises wrote:

A better policy would be to respect the desire of the British population for the rate of immigration to be slowed or halted. Until that happens (or if) the natives will become increasingly restless. The UK economy is in more trouble than even the American. We shouldn't have to talk about this. A sensible government would behave sensibly.

The natives are always restless. Back in the 80's and 90's it was nearly a crime to be Irish in the UK.

Indeed. A lot of Irish in London say the best thing that ever happened to them was the arrival of so many blacks. Mind you, some of the people I knew most hateful of blacks were also Irish or second generation Irish.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

mises wrote:

A better policy would be to respect the desire of the British population for the rate of immigration to be slowed or halted.

It definitely shouldn't be halted, but limiting it to skilled, valuable immigrants would probably be quite wise. That's the nice thing about immigrants: you can accept the contributors while rejecting the leeches. Certain countries need to learn that there's nothing racist about saying no to unskilled immigrants.

But is it ethical to help bleed developing countries of their educated class? It seems rather wrong to me that a poor nation pays for the development and training of its best and brightest, only to see them disappear to wealthier nations.

To make things fair, perhaps we could refund those nations' taxpayers every time we take their creme de la creme.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

Fox wrote:

mises wrote:

A better policy would be to respect the desire of the British population for the rate of immigration to be slowed or halted.

But is it ethical to help bleed developing countries of their educated class? It seems rather wrong to me that a developed nation pays for the development and training of its best and brightest, only to see them disappear to wealthier nations.

Well, I have written that probably 20 times on this site. Welcome to the team. Did you read a recent Guardian Op-Ed that allowed this opinion? You sound like Mark Steyn. I've never understood why multi-culties celebrate the importation of the best and brightest (only hope) from poor nations.

Next step is for you to argue that mass-immigration is bad for the environment. Because it is. It makes no sense to import people from low-consumption nations into high-consumption nations. The Swiss Greens are on the right track:

http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/green-mps-immigration-threatens-natural-beauty.shtml?16456

You voting UKIP or BNP? The BNP pulls from Labour, so I suppose you're there. They're socialists (for whites). Like 22% of British voters, apparently. By the by, I believe I mentioned that this would happen.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/10/26/bnp_more_divisive_than_ever

The multi-culties are useful idiots.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

Fox wrote:

mises wrote:

A better policy would be to respect the desire of the British population for the rate of immigration to be slowed or halted.

Well, I have written that probably 20 times on this site. Welcome to the team. Did you read a recent Guardian Op-Ed that allowed this opinion?

Chuckles. Sweet. No, I've known this for years. And years. And years. And I do recall trying to point it out to your friend BJWD some years ago.

Quote:

You sound like Mark Steyn.

Don't know this chap, and too lazy too google him.

Quote:

I've never understood why multi-culties celebrate the importation of the best and brightest (only hope) from poor nations.

Ah, back to your obsession with multi-culties. I remember you accusing me of being one a few years ago - though when I queried it you never gave me a reasonable explanation as to why I'd been assigned to that category, and instead muttered some nonsense about me having big feet. A masterful debate tactic.

I'm not sure I know any multi-culties personally, but I'll be sure to remind them of that very issue if ever I do. I recall pointing it out to quite a few Aussies back in the day when their press was having a big whinge-fest about the UK poaching their nurses. Smile

Quote:

Next step is for you to argue that mass-immigration is bad for the environment. Because it is. It makes no sense to import people from low-consumption nations into high-consumption nations. The Swiss Greens are on the right track:

http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/green-mps-immigration-threatens-natural-beauty.shtml?16456

You voting UKIP or BNP? The BNP pulls from Labour, so I suppose you're there. They're socialists (for whites). Like 22% of British voters, apparently. By the by, I believe I mentioned that this would happen.

The BNP are a bunch of f*ckwits. I've never met an intelligent supporter. They've been around for as long as I can remember - those sorts used to belong to the National Front when I was a little kid - now they've been rebranded/superceded by the BNP. New name, same old game. Nothing new. A few lads in my class used to be supporters, and wore huge Union Jacks on the backs of their coats and talked about Paki bashing a lot. The BNP are enjoying a little popularity at the moment, but it will never amount to much, though they will always remain with us, in one form or another. Every European country flirts with their fringe parties once in a decade or so, and then they fade back into the woodwork for the next 15 years. So don't get too excited, or infatuated... it will only break your heart.

Quote:

The multi-culties are useful idiots.

Back to your passion....

Last edited by Big_Bird on Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:19 pm; edited 3 times in total

blade

Joined: 30 Jun 2007

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

Sad but very true.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject:

I should point out that by European - I mean Western European. When Eastern Europeans flirt with fascism, that's something else!

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject:

Yes, the BJP are f$ckwits. And mass-immigration empowered them. This slow-moving disaster has been brewing for a long while. And also the UK is in a dire economic depression, which is also empowering them. And the UK is just getting started with the economy. We humans are a tribal lot. Us/them comes to us easily. When things are good, sure, no problem. Import Pakistan. When they turn sour.. Look out.

Quote:

Every European country flirts with their fringe parties once in a decade or so, and then they fade back into the woodwork for the next 15 years.

Past performance is no indication of future returns. Even the fictitious past performance listed above.

The multi-culties forgot about social stability. It's a wonderful thing, stability. It is also fragile.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

Quote:

Every European country flirts with their fringe parties once in a decade or so, and then they fade back into the woodwork for the next 15 years.

So now you're back to your old tricks of blaming immigration on the 'multi-culties?'

Immigration has happened/been encouraged for economic reasons. And occasionally, very ocasionally, we let in a few for humanitarian reasons.

I might also point out, that if it's not skin colour, it will be something else. There will always be an 'other' to blame things on/ take frustrations out on. Human beings are immature sh!ts when you get right down to it.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

Past performance is no indication of future returns. Even the fictitious past performance listed above.

I'm not really sure what you are getting at here. I'm thinking of the fringe parties - European equivalents of the BNP - headed by people like France's Le Pen or Austria's late Joerg Haider, which are always around, but never in real power, though on rare occasions they have a little surge in the polls. Probably about every 2 decades or so. A particular country's electorate will have a little protest vote. The media makes a song and dance. And a few years on, no-one quite remembers what all the fuss was about.

Right now, the Brits are sick of being overwhelmed by hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Poles. But when the Polish economy rights itself, that crisis will be over (it seems a lot have already gone back to Poland, though I'm not sure what the figures are). And then it will be someone else. Single mothers were the cause of society's ills back in the nineties. They're probably due for another stint in the spotlight.

And here is an example of BNP dimwittery:

BNP shot down after it uses a POLISH Spitfire to front its anti-immigration campaign

Quote:

But John Hemming, MP for Yardley, Birmingham, ridiculed this claim. He also condemned the far-Right party for using the image of Polish heroism in a campaign that includes stemming immigration from Poland.

The Romeo Foxtrot Delta plane featured in the poster was flown by the RAF's 303 Squadron - made up of ex-pat Poles
He said: �The BNP often get confused and this happens because they haven�t done their research. This is just another example of them getting it wrong.

�They have a policy to send Polish people back to Poland � yet they are fronting their latest campaign using this plane.

�It is absurd to make claims about Englishness and Britishness fronted by this image.

blade

Joined: 30 Jun 2007

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:40 am Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

The Romeo Foxtrot Delta plane featured in the poster was flown by the RAF's 303 Squadron - made up of ex-pat Poles
He said: �The BNP often get confused and this happens because they haven�t done their research. This is just another example of them getting it wrong.

�They have a policy to send Polish people back to Poland � yet they are fronting their latest campaign using this plane.

�It is absurd to make claims about Englishness and Britishness fronted by this image.

[/quote]
LOL Laughing

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:23 am Post subject:

Quote:

Right now, the Brits are sick of being overwhelmed by hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Poles. But when the Polish economy rights itself, that crisis will be over (it seems a lot have already gone back to Poland, though I'm not sure what the figures are). And then it will be someone else. Single mothers were the cause of society's ills back in the nineties. They're probably due for another stint in the spotlight

I honestly don't think most British people care about the Poles that much, although their arrival has been a distraction from a greater, and seemingly never ending source of migration - the third world. That's right, far more people have entered the UK from Africa and the subcontinent than from Eastern Europe over the last decade, and unlike the Poles, will most likely not go back, and will be much more difficult to assimilate.

When Brits think of Polish immigrants they think of builders, plumbers and pretty young girls named Anya working in Starbucks. When they think of Pakistani immigrants they think of burkhas, Islamic lunatics and hostile ghettoes. No surprise that BNP support is usually in areas with high levels of Muslim immigration.

Reggie

Joined: 21 Sep 2009

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:29 am Post subject:

With Gordon Brown and Lord Mandelson going to Saudi Arabia with hat in hand begging for money (sort of like Paulson), you're going to have more and more Islamic influence in the UK. After all, nothing is free. All things considered, the failed UK banking system could probably use some Islamic banking principles.

Privateer

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:25 am Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

mises wrote:

zipper wrote:

mises wrote:

zipper wrote:

If everyone was economically secured, then I doubt there would be a big problem.

And what role do you think unskilled immigration has played in creating economic insecurity among the low-end of the working class?

I would image a very significant role; especially if the economies tail spin into a severe recession.

Finally you've stopped blaming the 'multi cults' for immigration and recognised the real reasons we have 'cultural diversity.' Well done.

+1

People seem to think it's 'PC-ness gone mad'. Nothing to do with it. Big business wants cheap labour. Immigration to the UK in the modern era has mostly been about the importation of cheap labour, and remains so.

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