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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:09 am Post subject: philosophy of dress |
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This isn't meant to be an investigation into why people invented clothes in the first place. They just did, and today we must invent profound philosophies about it. I came up with a few categories
Self-Expression
Comfort
Decoration
Image/Semiotics
Manipulation
Fitting In
What's your take? Which ideas predominate in your view, maybe for you personally, or maybe you'd like to advance some sociological theory. To pre-empt confusions, examples:
Self-expression: A lady wears red because she likes red, or she's 'in a red kind of mood.'
Decoration: A lady wears red because it sets off her eyes. It's distinct from her personal feelings about red.
Image/Semiotics: A man wears grungy leather and denim to indicate his clique, or to convey an impression of practicality and toughness.
Manipulation: A guy wears suits so that waitresses will address him as 'sir'. What distinguishes this from Image is the element of cunning and maybe self-awareness. |
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maryjanes
Joined: 22 Jul 2009 Location: Cheongju
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Like it. Most people would say publicly that they dress for self expression and/or comfort but we all know that the other elements you've identified play a big role. Image and fitting in strike me as the two most predominate factors, even though we probably don't like to admit it.
I'd be interested to hear if foreign teachers in Korea get into the (female) frilly, girlie, high heeled look to fit in and if many get into the (male) uber-casual, didn't-try-too-hard look to portray the expected image of north American/British/Antipodean homeland. |
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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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I had to look up the word "semiotics"...no idea what it means still
I don't understand anything.
I wear clothes to stay warm and not be arrested.
I can understand female attention to clothes, I guess.
Personally I think fashion is a load of garbage. |
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Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I am going to go with all. Personally, I see validity in all Koveras's definitions.
We all like comfort. Sometimes comfort and dress are miles apart, but some man's suites are more comfortable than others.
I think self-expression is 100% natural in almost everything. If you have a choice in colors, patterns etc., you will probably choice what you like.
Manipulation - Good one!! A man dressed in a suite will be treated differently than if not. Women take this issue to a whole different level.
Decoration - I believe most males do not take this to the levels that females take it, but it's there for all of us. Hats, scarfs (spelling?), jewelry etc.
Semiotics - By this, do you mean embroided symbols on clothing to show status or wealth. Like the Versace lion head on a shirt etc. Or a silver/gold pin a woman would wear on her blouse? I personally don't put much effort into this. If I like a shirt and it has a little turtle on the left breast portion of the front, than so be it. On the flip side, I would not buy a black T-shirt with Flava-Fla on the front sporting a giant clock from his neck!!!
Fitting in - We all have to conform to some degree. I will conform when it's necessary. A uniform is exactly that, one form for all parties involved. If dressing a certain way will make things easier for you, then why not? |
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Panda

Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the time, the simpler, the better.
When you cant find the size that fits you, wearing skinny is better than wearing fat.
Quality of your dressing is indicated by not only what and how much you are wearing, but also how you are wearing them. ex. fat short legs in mini skirt (no matter how expensive it is) is a crime...
To keep up with fashion, you only need something, but not everything, that fashionable on you. |
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mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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For work, this is why I wear my suits;
~ Portray professionalism
~ Portray confidence
But I have to admit, there are times where I wish I could just go into my office in T-shirts and jeans. I became adjusted (not necessarily meaning I liked it) to working suits, or at least a shirt and tie, while working as an ESL teacher. When I first stepped into the classroom, I wore a T-shirt and baggy jeans because I thought I would be comfortable. But after I started wearing shirts and ties with slacks, I noticed my students paying attention to me more and the staff started treating me more professionally and with respect.
When I am not working, I let loose and wear FUBU, Karl Kani, etc. because I like the style and they're comfortable to wear.
Funny thing though, I am rather young looking, so when I go through the gates to get onbase, I sometimes have officers remark that I should get a haircut because to them, I look like I am the age of most entry-level soldiers- heck! I even had a Marine Brigadier General say that my attire was a poor example of what dependents wear these days. When he asked me who my sponsor was, I pulled out my business card and introduced myself as Mr. XXXXX, Director of <><><>< and if he had a problem with what I wore on my off-time to go speak to the military laison of my office- he walked away feeling like 2 cents- priceless! |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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^ Ah, so we have an Image guy (at work, at least).
Semiotics means language of symbols. It's usually specific to culture. So yeah, a designer symbol would be one, but it's often more subtle. In this case it's how what you wear signals to people what your status and interests, etc., are. You tend to pick up the message subconsciously. I'd say that it's distinct from self expression in that it conveys more objective social data about the wearer.
Joe666 thinks that in some ways everything is self expression. This might be true. One could say that a manipulator is expressing himself by manipulating people; he's expressing his values, isn't he, even if no one else gets it. But the manipulator is operating with a different paradigm. He isn't concerned directly with how he looks, no he's preoccupied with the predictable effects his appearance works on others. Probably no one here dresses purely on this level but if you're honest, part does. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Yap
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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My students tell me I dress like a farmer. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding the "fitting in" part, the groups we seek approval from, at least on a subconscious level, are obviously different for everyone. And many of us have more than one group, for example a work place group and a "peer" group.
Someone who claims to care nothing about fashion actually does in a reverse sort of way - they would not be caught dead wearing the latest fashion as their friends would be cracking on them.
Even a 100% undeniable macho guy who wears his hair or clothes a certain way to reflect that could be judged to be fashion conscious.
When you choose not to choose, you still have made a choice. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I feel fitting in has by far the biggest impact of any of the things you listed. Things like self-expression, comfort, etc no doubt play a role in the comparatively small decisions people make regarding their day to day clothing, but by far, fitting in is the most important part. This is why people from the same culture tend towards the same overal style of dress. This is the only reason what's "fashionable" matters at all. This is why business suit + tie is the predominate style of western white collar workplace clothing for men, despite the fact that realistically speaking, any type of clean clothing could serve just as well.
Through whatever social forces that be, at any given time, a certain style of dress is "in" in any given social group, and that is what causes most people to select the clothing they select. |
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Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Koveras wrote:
Quote: |
Semiotics means language of symbols. It's usually specific to culture. So yeah, a designer symbol would be one, but it's often more subtle. In this case it's how what you wear signals to people what your status and interests, etc., are. You tend to pick up the message subconsciously. I'd say that it's distinct from self expression in that it conveys more objective social data about the wearer. |
Interesting thread Mr. Koveras!! Nice one!! You stated "it's how what you wear". I'm a bit confused on this one or having a hard time conceptualizing what exactly you mean. Are you saying that if one wears a nice dress shirt not "tucked in", it may show a "sloppy" attitude or "gangster" type attitude? I don't think you can separate self expression with how you wear a particular article of clothing. How you wear a shirt is in some way a form of self expression. If I wear a $400 Versace shirt with the sweet embroidered lion's head on the front and wear it not tucked in, am I a filthy rich slob gangster. |
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mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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From what I am hearing is that people are trying hard NOT to fit in, as if it is a deep-rooted threat to their individualism.
I really need to ask; Would you work in an office wearing a T-shirt and jeans?
If you work for a .com, you might get away with it.
But what about a fortune-500 company?
In business, attire does portray who a person is and whether a person could be considered a professional.
But then again, most ESLers came to Korea to escape the ratrace and having to dress in a professional manner.
Korea is an appearance-driven place- the way a person presents themselves is how Koreans will deal with them. A person could be an extremely good teacher. But if they don't dress the part, chances are that students or staff might not think that way (at least they won't say it to your face).
It could be good practice for when people go back to the real world- where they have to wear proper attire to an office or corporate job. |
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Leslie Cheswyck

Joined: 31 May 2003 Location: University of Western Chile
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DorkothyParker

Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: Jeju
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Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:51 am Post subject: |
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I would look at fashion from three perspectives. Fashion can be art, utilitarian, or costume.
Utilitarian fashion is not really fashion as it's just clothing. If you only consider fit, function and cost when purchasing the item and you just throw it on without thinking about your look, it's utilitarian.
My fashion as art stance comes from the belief that all art is useless. Artful fashion means you choose to express yourself at the expense of your comfort and the intended purpose of clothing in the first place. This might mean haute couture non-wearable runway garb or could simply mean wearing impossibly high heels and cute trouser shorts in the middle of Winter. The statement one makes is less dependent upon the viewer, but the the fact that the artist (wearer) chooses to make it. I think it's important that the artist does make a sacrifice in some way and either makes themselves or others uncomfortable.
Fashion as costume probably best relates to the manipulation standpoint. You wear clothing with a specific "look" in mind and maybe wish to see yourself as a certain character or archetype. A costume wearer may sacrifice some comfort, but not to the degree of the artist above. The wearer intends for the viewer to interpret the look. For example, just last week I went for an "uber nerd rockabilly" look. The example of a business man in a suit is a less literal interpretation of fashion as costume. What makes it costume is the level of self-awareness involved and the desire to be understood (through symbols, yes).
Depending on the day, I take cues from each of these three categories.
I'm not super keen on fashion, though. |
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JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:17 am Post subject: |
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I've definitely been dressing more Korean and worrying about my weight(you have to be skinny to wear korean clothes). So I guess I'm in the 'fitting in' group. |
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