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America to end HIV entry ban
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Triban

Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Again, which is more likely to reduce the number of infections- quarantine or no quarantine?

I don't know, but I do know anything like the threat of quarantine would significantly discourage getting tested for HIV, and that's not something I want to encourage. I also feel things like quarantining people should be a last resort, and HIV really isn't infectious enough to justify that resort.

They have to get checked in order to gain entrance into the country so that point is moot.

It isn't just transmittable through sex, it is MORE than your average STD.

Hater Depot

Joined: 29 Mar 2005

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject:

So why did CDC and HHS propose lifting the ban? This didn't happen overnight. The process began about 18 months ago.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject:

Hater Depot wrote:

So why did CDC and HHS propose lifting the ban? This didn't happen overnight. The process began about 18 months ago.

I still think a substantial number of the dissenting comments show a poor understanding of just how difficult it is to transmit HIV in a developed country with proper precautions taken for sterilization.

Besides, lifting the ban will not introduce HIV/AIDS into America. Its already here.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:19 am Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

Hater Depot wrote:

So why did CDC and HHS propose lifting the ban? This didn't happen overnight. The process began about 18 months ago.

That's quite the caveat. We're talking about sex and drugs. Two things humans are notoriously illogical when it comes to them.

A ban makes more sense than not having a ban.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:19 am Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

Hater Depot wrote:

So why did CDC and HHS propose lifting the ban? This didn't happen overnight. The process began about 18 months ago.

You will forgive some of us dissenters if we take this sustained scare-tactics campaign, which has come to us in many forms for decades now, at face-value...

AIDS: don't get it

Is AIDS something that ought to scare the hell out of us or it just a pretext for racists or other biggots to deny the good people of the world permission to immigrate into the United States? People ought to get their story straight, Kuros.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:34 am Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

Kuros wrote:

Hater Depot wrote:

So why did CDC and HHS propose lifting the ban? This didn't happen overnight. The process began about 18 months ago.

I don't think anyone who supports the ban is a bigot. But since you mentioned it . . .

. . . there is a tiresome tread on this board where racism and bigotry comes up out of nowhere. But it usually isn't actually people accusing someone of being bigoted or racist. Its used as an accusation by someone who claims they will be identified as a bigot/racist. This has happened time and again, and not just on the threads about Jews or Israel, and its not confined to one person, and its not being bandied about by the 'Left' this time.

Anyway, if someone spreads HIV rampantly, like Fox says it can be criminally prosecuted. The offender can than be kicked out the United States and excluded from further entry.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:40 am Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

Quote:

"...misinformation about HIV and AIDS."

Interesting allegation. Is this disease the incurable, highly-contagious ["it can infect any of us!" etc.], life-threatening disease the medical community has told us it is or not?

I don't believe the medical community have ever told us it was 'highly-contagious.' In fact it's not that easy to catch. It generally requires a p.enis or a needle, for one thing.

Hater Depot

Joined: 29 Mar 2005

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:14 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Kuros wrote:

Hater Depot wrote:

So why did CDC and HHS propose lifting the ban? This didn't happen overnight. The process began about 18 months ago.

That's quite the caveat. We're talking about sex and drugs. Two things humans are notoriously illogical when it comes to them.

A ban makes more sense than not having a ban.

Again... are you sure you know better than CDC and HHS?

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:08 am Post subject:

Hater Depot wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Kuros wrote:

Hater Depot wrote:

So why did CDC and HHS propose lifting the ban? This didn't happen overnight. The process began about 18 months ago.

That's quite the caveat. We're talking about sex and drugs. Two things humans are notoriously illogical when it comes to them.

A ban makes more sense than not having a ban.

Again... are you sure you know better than CDC and HHS?

I guess in the end, yeah I am. I mean their 'expert solutions' haven't done much to stop AIDS from reaching catastrophic levels in some countries.

This is kinda sick- but experts would say that to make the trains run on time would require some fancy scheme or another. Mussolini knew what it took. And he was right.

The assertion that AIDS is so hard to spread is difficult to reconcile with the millions of people who are infected with the disease. I mean if it WAS so hard to spread, surely the number or infected individuals would be in the 10s of thousands, not 10s of millions.

At some point you gotta realize that lab experts are full of it sometimes and look at the real picture out there.

I suspect their motives. Something about AIDS just doesn't sit right with me. Any other disease that fit that description would result in quarantines, but for some reason AIDS does not.

Let's be real, most people who have AIDS are people who have pretty poor judgment/self-control. Why let them run around, completely unmonitored?

Not to get all conspiratorial, but well, it makes me wonder.

As for which is more benevolent to society- quarantine or the current state of things, if we had only quarantined people at the earliest possible
moment, would the problem have reached the levels it has now?

Sorry, this terribly anecdotal, but the behavior of the one full-blown individual I have met in my life did not inspire confidence in the law-abiding nature of AIDS infectees.

Again, if the disease is so hard to spread, why all the cases?

And aren't there massive problems due to AIDS, especially in Africa?

Wouldn't the best solution have been to prevent the disease rather than try to treat it? Isn't prevention more efficient and the preferred way of dealing with health conditions?

At least in Africa I have a lot of sympathy for people who are infected with it there- we're talking people born with it.

In America, that sympathy drops off for me. Kinda like smokers and cancer.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:04 am Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

. . . there is a tiresome tread on this board where racism and bigotry comes up out of nowhere. But it usually isn't actually people accusing someone of being bigoted or racist. Its used as an accusation by someone who claims they will be identified as a bigot/racist. This has happened time and again, and not just on the threads about Jews or Israel, and its not confined to one person, and its not being bandied about by the 'Left' this time.

That is not going to fly, Kuros. "Racism" and "bigoty" pervade most political discussions -- almost as pervasively as "fascism" and "socialism," in fact. And they almost always originate with leftists aiming to undermine non-leftists' politics. Where is Bobster when I need him...?

What thread are you talking about, by the way?

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

I guess in the end, yeah I am. I mean their 'expert solutions' haven't done much to stop AIDS from reaching catastrophic levels in some countries.

No amount of applied expertise can help a population that refuses to help themselves. And that's the real reason AIDS has reached "catastrophic levels" in certain African countries: the locals are behaving in a way that promotes its spread and doing little to limit it. It wouldn't matter if they had God himself giving them advice on how to stop it if they don't listen.

Steelrails wrote:

The assertion that AIDS is so hard to spread is difficult to reconcile with the millions of people who are infected with the disease. I mean if it WAS so hard to spread, surely the number or infected individuals would be in the 10s of thousands, not 10s of millions.

HIV spreads as well as it does primarily because of people who don't realize they have it. That said, when is the last time you felt at risk of HIV? Probably never, unless I seriously misjudge your lifestyle. I know I've never been particularly worried about catching it based on my lifestyle. And that's exactly why it's not a horribly infectious disease: we can put ourselves at 0% risk if we care to.

Steelrails wrote:

At some point you gotta realize that lab experts are full of it sometimes and look at the real picture out there.

And the big picture is a few quarantines isn't going to seriously dent the number of HIV infections in our country, so I'd rather not do it.

Steelrails wrote:

I suspect their motives. Something about AIDS just doesn't sit right with me. Any other disease that fit that description would result in quarantines, but for some reason AIDS does not.

Can you name a disease that anyone in the population could voluntarily reduce their risk of catching to 0% while still interacting normally with other humans having a quarantine instituted for it?

Triban

Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

Gopher wrote:

Quote:

"...misinformation about HIV and AIDS."

Interesting allegation. Is this disease the incurable, highly-contagious ["it can infect any of us!" etc.], life-threatening disease the medical community has told us it is or not?

I don't believe the medical community have ever told us it was 'highly-contagious.' In fact it's not that easy to catch. It generally requires a p.enis or a needle, for one thing.

Or it could require them having an open sore/cut in their mouth, or any open wound on their body that you come in contact with. If you pick up something their bodily fluids have recently been on by mistake, etc. etc.

Stop arguing, it's a contagious often fatal disease and this is bollocks.

Triban

Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

we can put ourselves at 0% risk if we care to.

See above post, unless you aren't trying to kiss anyone/give CPR to a dying man/help someone who is bleeding out/pick up any kind of refuse to help the world become a better place/you get the picture.

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject:

Triban wrote:

Fox wrote:

we can put ourselves at 0% risk if we care to.

Now you're just stretching. Getting HIV from a kiss, giving someone CPR, or so forth is incredibly rare and implausible. It may have happened on occasion, but in such incredibly low numbers that statistically speaking within any given population your risk rate is essentially 0%. More importantly, instituting some sort of quarantine or ban on HIV-infected individuals entering the United States isn't likely to impact that figure at all.

Outside of unprotected sex and needle sharing this disease is barely contagious at all.

Triban

Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

Outside of unprotected sex and needle sharing this deadly disease is barely contagious at all.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be the guy who was a part of the "barely".

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