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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| BB, read your comments. You are entitled to your opinion. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Another interesting article.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1118952.html
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It's been a decade and a half that fanatics on both sides have ruined our lives. But there's a change coming. Whether the extremists like it or not. The sign came on the eve of the Sukkot festival, when Israel freed a group of Palestinian women prisoners in exchange for a video of IDF soldier Gilad Shalit, held by Hamas for well over three years.
The exchange was a quiet tectonic shift. The families of the Palestinian women told Israel television that they hoped that the Shalit family would soon be as happy as they were. A natural response, to be sure, but shocking in contrast to the tone of years past.
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Another article on the topic of the PA being a waste of time. Thought you might like it for your thread.
Our Shame is Complete: Abbas and the Goldstone Report
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As Israeli bombs fell on the Gaza Strip during its one-sided war between December 27, 2008 and January 18, 2009, millions around the world took to the streets in complete and uncompromising outrage. The level of barbarity in that war, especially as it was conducted against a poor, defenseless and physically trapped nation, united people of every color, race and religion. But among those who seemed utterly unmoved, unreservedly cold were some Palestinian officials in the West Bank.
Mahmoud Habbash, the PA Minister of Social Affairs is but one of those individuals. His appearances on Aljazeera, during those fateful days were many. On one half of the screen would be screaming, disfigured children, mutilated women, and search parties digging in the dark for dead bodies, at times entire families. On the other, was Habbash, spewing political insults at his Hamas rivals in Gaza, repeating the same message so tirelessly parroted by his Israeli colleagues. Every time his face appeared on the screen, I cringed. Every unruly shriek of his, reinforced my sense of shame. Shame, perhaps, but never confusion. Those who understand how the Oslo agreement of September 1993 morphed into a culture that destroyed the very fabric of Palestinian society can fully appreciate the behavior of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank during the Gaza war, before it and today.
But especially today.
Those who hoped that the Israeli atrocities in Gaza would rekindled a sense of remorse among the egotistical elites in Ramallah, were surely disappointed when the PA withdrew its draft resolution supporting recommendations made by South African Judge Richard Goldstone. The Goldstone report is the most comprehensive, and transparent investigation as of yet into what happened in Gaza during the 23-day war. It decried Israeli terror, and chastised Palestinians as well. But the focus on Israel undoubtedly and deservingly occupied much of the nearly 600-page report. The next step was for the Human Rights Council to send the report for consideration to the United Nations Security Council, which was to study the findings for a possible referral of the case to the International Criminal Court e in the Hague. Such a move would have been historic. Knowing the full implications of such a possibility, Hamas accepted the report�s recommendations in full. Israel, backed by its traditional US ally, rejected it, leveling all sorts of accusations and insults on the world-renowned Jewish judge.
The draft resolution � condemning Israel and calling for the transfer of the report to the UNSC - was due for a vote at the Council on October 2. Alas, it was withdrawn at the behest of the Palestinian Authority and its president Mahmoud Abbas himself. Palestinian friends and allies at UNHRC were shocked, but obliged. They were equally disappointed when they watched PA envoys discussing the matter, not with the Asian, African or other traditional allies at the Council, but with US and European diplomats, who seemed to have a greater sway over Palestinian political action than those who have for decades supported Palestinian rights at every turn.
Something went horribly wrong. How could a leader of an occupied and suffering nation commit such a �mistake�, deferring an urgent vote and discussion on a report pertaining to the death of over 1,400 people, the maiming and wounding of thousands more, to a later date, six months from today? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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And more - Professor Richard Falk commenting on the PA. That news is more than a week old now, and events have moved on, but it's still relevant to your discussion on a corrupt PA that doesn't really have it's people's interests at heart.
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/videos/viewVideo.php?fileID=450 |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for that BB, an interesting read. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Here's an interesting read.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/20561/consequences_of_hamasfatah_split.html?breadcrumb=%2F
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How popular is the Abbas leadership?
Two good recent polls show that Mahmoud Abbas has the support of 12 percent of the Palestinians. That's as low as you can get.
And what about Hamas, how popular are they?
Hamas is not as popular as Fatah strangely enough. Fatah does better in these two polls, the Jerusalem Media and Communications Center and Khalil Shikaki's Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, which are completely different institutions coming up with more or less the same results.
Is there a more popular Fatah leader in the background to replace Abbas?
What happened at the Fatah conference over the summer in August rejuvenated the Fatah leadership and may have encouraged people to think that one of several Fatah leaders, whether Marwan Barghouti, who's currently in Israeli prison, or whether a couple of others might eventually emerge to replace Abbas. The point here is not that Fatah or Hamas are terribly popular -- in fact neither is terribly popular and if you ask the question, the majority of Palestinians would vote for neither. The point here is that you can't get anywhere without a Palestinian consensus. The way to get a consensus is to agree on a minimal position whereby both parties authorize the PA to negotiate and per se that will be a tougher negotiating position which is, of course, why the Israelis are horrified. They're not willing to meet the terms that Abbas has already put forward; they're certainly not going to meet the consensus terms that the Palestinians might come up with.
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think both sides are f-cked in the head.
But all I know is, the US needs to let Israel fend for itself, no matter what the influential Jews in NYC say.
Perhaps Israel wouldn't act so tough and be more conciliatory if it knew that Uncle Sam wasn't going to be providing them with weapons anymore.
But perhaps the Saudis are backing the Palestinians as well. Anyways, Israel is way more powerful, mainly due to US "donations". |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: Re: interesting article on Israel |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Not surprised you liked it though, S Wine.
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Is that kosher?
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Big_Bird wrote:
Not surprised you liked it though, S Wine.
Is that kosher? |
No, but it is halal.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
I think both sides are f-cked in the head.
But all I know is, the US needs to let Israel fend for itself, no matter what the influential Jews in NYC say.
Perhaps Israel wouldn't act so tough and be more conciliatory if it knew that Uncle Sam wasn't going to be providing them with weapons anymore.
But perhaps the Saudis are backing the Palestinians as well. Anyways, Israel is way more powerful, mainly due to US "donations". |
Israel is a fairly reliable ally in a region where the U.S has serious national interests. It has far more to do with that as opposed to the "influential Jews in NYC say". |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Israel is a fairly reliable ally in a region where the U.S has serious national interests. It has far more to do with that as opposed to the "influential Jews in NYC say". |
Like on June 8, 1967 when
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| The Israeli forces attacked [the USS Liberty] with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
I think both sides are f-cked in the head.
But all I know is, the US needs to let Israel fend for itself, no matter what the influential Jews in NYC say.
Perhaps Israel wouldn't act so tough and be more conciliatory if it knew that Uncle Sam wasn't going to be providing them with weapons anymore.
But perhaps the Saudis are backing the Palestinians as well. Anyways, Israel is way more powerful, mainly due to US "donations". |
Donations? My money goes to Israel, but it isn't voluntary. Israel and the Israel lobby should be ashamed that they propagate and reinforce such negative shakedown artist stereotypes about Jews. |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Israel is a fairly reliable ally in a region where the U.S has serious national interests. It has far more to do with that as opposed to the "influential Jews in NYC say". |
Yeah I would partly agree with that. But there is more to it than gaining an ally in the middle east.
I would say that the US relationship with Saudi Arabia is cozy enough, and that is mostly where their interests lie right?
And since most of their interests lie in Saudi Arabia, namely Ghawar, do you think it helps the US relationship with Saudi to provide Israel with billions of dollars in weapons to eradicate a muslim enemy?
I mean, if the US wants to protect its interests in the oil of muslim producing countries, why would it give weapons to an age-old enemy of muslims? Unless there is something else behind it? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Israel is a fairly reliable ally in a region where the U.S has serious national interests. It has far more to do with that as opposed to the "influential Jews in NYC say". |
Like on June 8, 1967 when
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| The Israeli forces attacked [the USS Liberty] with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. |
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I clicked on the link in hopes of seeing a story by a reputable news organization (TIME, Newsweek, The Economist....) and I get a conspiracy theory site.
It'll take a little more than that. |
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