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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Mithrae wrote: |
Exactly, the 'unqualified' foreign teachers in Korea are not the ones teaching at public schools or hagwons. Most of them can execute their teaching responsibilities very effectively. It's the Westerner with a B.A. degree masquerading as a university professor that's unqualified.
Funny though how the Korean media has confused the two, and seems to focus exclusively on E-2 visa holders. |
BA holders teaching university are often on an E2 visa... aren't they? |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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The better universities are not going to hire anyone without a PhD (I snuck in with an ABD in progress). Poorer 'unigwon' universities will have lower standards, but will have accordingly poorer benefits and may not be much better than a hogwan. Read carefully so that you are not stuck with a mandatory winter camp or other surprises!
It's possible to teach 9 hours a week, but only with tenure. That's a lot harder for a foreigner, but not impossible. |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
The better universities are not going to hire anyone without a PhD (I snuck in with an ABD in progress). Poorer 'unigwon' universities will have lower standards, but will have accordingly poorer benefits and may not be much better than a hogwan. Read carefully so that you are not stuck with a mandatory winter camp or other surprises!
It's possible to teach 9 hours a week, but only with tenure. That's a lot harder for a foreigner, but not impossible. |
Hmm, mandatory winter camp + 10 weeks vacation in summer and probably some time off in winter too, or working at a hagwon and having 2 weeks off period... you're right, if you can't get tenure and only work 9 hours a week, it's all the same! |
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The Grumpy Senator
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Up and down the 6 line
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
The better universities are not going to hire anyone without a PhD (I snuck in with an ABD in progress). Poorer 'unigwon' universities will have lower standards, but will have accordingly poorer benefits and may not be much better than a hogwan. Read carefully so that you are not stuck with a mandatory winter camp or other surprises!
It's possible to teach 9 hours a week, but only with tenure. That's a lot harder for a foreigner, but not impossible. |
Working on my MEd, 20 weeks vacation, all credit classes, no mandatory camps, not a unigwon.
There are good jobs out there.
| Mithrae wrote: |
Exactly, the 'unqualified' foreign teachers in Korea are not the ones teaching at public schools or hagwons. Most of them can execute their teaching responsibilities very effectively. It's the Westerner with a B.A. degree masquerading as a university professor that's unqualified.
Funny though how the Korean media has confused the two, and seems to focus exclusively on E-2 visa holders. |
As far as most Uni teachers not being qualified, you have to prove your teaching abilities in an interview for most Uni jobs. They want experience, graduate-level education and knowledge of teaching methodologies. The term "professor" is used loosely. My students call me by my name. Sounds like sour grapes to me.
PS- The unmarried teachers at my Uni are on E2 Visas. |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand people on here always talking down about "unigwon" jobs.
Do all those people actually have experience with those jobs, or do they just "know" because "their friends" told them all about it.
Sometimes I wonder if it's just another way for some university teachers to feel better about themselves by searching for an opportunity to put down someone else.
I've seen many many university jobs posted that don't have very good contract benefits.
In addition, the top end university jobs (non-tenure) aren't going to be much better than the best unigwon job out there. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
The better universities are not going to hire anyone without a PhD (I snuck in with an ABD in progress). Poorer 'unigwon' universities will have lower standards, but will have accordingly poorer benefits and may not be much better than a hogwan. Read carefully so that you are not stuck with a mandatory winter camp or other surprises!
It's possible to teach 9 hours a week, but only with tenure. That's a lot harder for a foreigner, but not impossible. |
Actually, I got very lucky. When I start next year, I will be teaching no more than 9 hours a week. And this was all accomplished with an M.S. without ABD although I am close to being ABD. Of course, I did not get tenure though. |
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calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
Working on my MEd, 20 weeks vacation, all credit classes, no mandatory camps, not a unigwon.
There are good jobs out there.
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Are you working on a MEd here, or online? That is an interesting point to me, because I am currently weighing an MEd or applied linguistics.
I pondered going back to the States for an MEd.
Any feedback is of course helpful. |
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The Grumpy Senator
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Up and down the 6 line
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| KoreanAmbition wrote: |
I don't understand people on here always talking down about "unigwon" jobs.
Do all those people actually have experience with those jobs, or do they just "know" because "their friends" told them all about it.
Sometimes I wonder if it's just another way for some university teachers to feel better about themselves by searching for an opportunity to put down someone else.
I've seen many many university jobs posted that don't have very good contract benefits.
In addition, the top end university jobs (non-tenure) aren't going to be much better than the best unigwon job out there. |
I worked at the unigwon section of a major Korean University, it seemed we were only there to make the Uni some extra money and got zero support from the administration. The "true professors" there looked down at the program and always complained about the kids running around the building and campus. I only took the job to gain experience teaching adults and took the first full Uni gig I got offered, so I suppose it served its purpose. However, it is night and day compared to my current situation. Here I have full reign over my class, complete support from admin, and the respect of other teachers and professors in the University.
| calicoe wrote: |
Are you working on a MEd here, or online? That is an interesting point to me, because I am currently weighing an MEd or applied linguistics.
I pondered going back to the States for an MEd.
Any feedback is of course helpful. |
I am working on my MEd TESOL through the University of Missouri online. I am enjoying the program and have gotten a lot out of it. PM me for details. I am finishing my second semester currently and should be able to finish within a year. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Mithrae wrote: |
Exactly, the 'unqualified' foreign teachers in Korea are not the ones teaching at public schools or hagwons. Most of them can execute their teaching responsibilities very effectively. It's the Westerner with a B.A. degree masquerading as a university professor that's unqualified.
Funny though how the Korean media has confused the two, and seems to focus exclusively on E-2 visa holders. |
Really? What makes them unqualified to teach conversational English? This isn't rocket science. Some of us teach in other content areas, as well. I teach a job interview class, for example.
Your post smacks of someone who feels they were unfairly passed over for a position, or some elitest *edit* losing his/her job to less qualified people for less money.
I had to teach a sample class in front of 5 professors here. I was chosen over MA's. I wasn't the first choice, but I was chose as an alternate. Other MA's weren't considered due to a variety of reasons. If I hadn't proven my teaching ability and classroom skills, I wouldn't have a job.
So what?
By the way, I am also in the same MA program as The Grumpy Senator. It has proven very useful and worthwhile, although I am somewhat disappointed in a few aspects. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Working on my MEd, 20 weeks vacation, all credit classes, no mandatory camps, not a unigwon.
There are good jobs out there. |
I didn't mean to come off as arrogant. There are of course good university posts which will hire masters graduates, and may even offer them tenure. I just wanted to point out the extremes.
I did interview with a university in Daegu years ago which tried to slip in mandatory winter camps, and I interviewed with another university in Busan which was paying considerably less than the hogwan I worked for at the time. These are truly 'unigwon' jobs. |
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pocariboy73
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
The better universities are not going to hire anyone without a PhD (I snuck in with an ABD in progress). Poorer 'unigwon' universities will have lower standards, but will have accordingly poorer benefits and may not be much better than a hogwan. Read carefully so that you are not stuck with a mandatory winter camp or other surprises!
It's possible to teach 9 hours a week, but only with tenure. That's a lot harder for a foreigner, but not impossible. |
Actually, I got very lucky. When I start next year, I will be teaching no more than 9 hours a week. And this was all accomplished with an M.S. without ABD although I am close to being ABD. Of course, I did not get tenure though. |
Is your salary approx. 4.5 million per month like many of Korean Profs who teach 9 hours per week make? |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Mithrae wrote: |
| It's the Westerner with a B.A. degree masquerading as a university professor that's unqualified. |
This is an interesting statement. Normally, the term "professor" is not relative; we know the exact meaning when we are in our own country (for me it's The U.S.). However, Korea does allow for those with a master's degree to sign a contract and be a non-tenured professor. I wouldn't fault foreigners as you have in your statement above.
Many, such as myself, are non-tenured professors according to Korean guidelines. Our contracts state nothing less. I do some research. I do publish in top journals. I do present in all types of venues in South Korea and I have presented internationally, albeit only at the TESOL conference in New York. After having read what I wrote, would you say that I am masquerading as a university professor? If so, then how exactly would you define a non-tenured professor?
But, let's be realistic. The vast majority of people that have the title NTP do nothing. They don't publish; they don't present. But, I would be hesistant to paint every person that is an NTP with the same brush you have, regardless of anyone's achievements. Blame it on the Korean university system that allows for such slackers in the NTP position, not the foreigners. The opportunity is simply given to people; they simply, as we say in Spanish, aprovechan. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| pocariboy73 wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
The better universities are not going to hire anyone without a PhD (I snuck in with an ABD in progress). Poorer 'unigwon' universities will have lower standards, but will have accordingly poorer benefits and may not be much better than a hogwan. Read carefully so that you are not stuck with a mandatory winter camp or other surprises!
It's possible to teach 9 hours a week, but only with tenure. That's a lot harder for a foreigner, but not impossible. |
Actually, I got very lucky. When I start next year, I will be teaching no more than 9 hours a week. And this was all accomplished with an M.S. without ABD although I am close to being ABD. Of course, I did not get tenure though. |
Is your salary approx. 4.5 million per month like many of Korean Profs who teach 9 hours per week make? |
If you really must know, it will be 3 million per month. I suppose in terms of earning potential, that is the difference between having a Ph.D and only having an M.S. Now, if only I could convince my old adviser to allow me to finish in absentia... |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Mithrae wrote: |
| It's the Westerner with a B.A. degree masquerading as a university professor that's unqualified. |
This is an interesting statement. Normally, the term "professor" is not relative; we know the exact meaning when we are in our own country (for me it's The U.S.). However, Korea does allow for those with a master's degree to sign a contract and be a non-tenured professor. I wouldn't fault foreigners as you have in your statement above.
Many, such as myself, are non-tenured professors according to Korean guidelines. Our contracts state nothing less. I do some research. I do publish in top journals. I do present in all types of venues in South Korea and I have presented internationally, albeit only at the TESOL conference in New York. After having read what I wrote, would you say that I am masquerading as a university professor? If so, then how exactly would you define a non-tenured professor?
But, let's be realistic. The vast majority of people that have the title NTP do nothing. They don't publish; they don't present. But, I would be hesistant to paint every person that is an NTP with the same brush you have, regardless of anyone's achievements. Blame it on the Korean university system that allows for such slackers in the NTP position, not the foreigners. The opportunity is simply given to people; they simply, as we say in Spanish, aprovechan. |
I think when Mithrae says "masquerading" as a professor he means the following:
Teachers in Korea that will openly refer to themselves as a professor to other westerners. Of course, NTP is the "true" title as you say it, but to a westerner it's quite known that a professor means you have a PhD.
I don't have a problem with someone tellling someone else they are a professor if that is their job title. I do believe though that some people say it with "intent" to upgrade their "status" or "education level".
I still have to say the idea of being called a professor when I don't have a PhD makes me feel uncomfortable. |
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pocariboy73
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| KoreanAmbition wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Mithrae wrote: |
| It's the Westerner with a B.A. degree masquerading as a university professor that's unqualified. |
This is an interesting statement. Normally, the term "professor" is not relative; we know the exact meaning when we are in our own country (for me it's The U.S.). However, Korea does allow for those with a master's degree to sign a contract and be a non-tenured professor. I wouldn't fault foreigners as you have in your statement above.
Many, such as myself, are non-tenured professors according to Korean guidelines. Our contracts state nothing less. I do some research. I do publish in top journals. I do present in all types of venues in South Korea and I have presented internationally, albeit only at the TESOL conference in New York. After having read what I wrote, would you say that I am masquerading as a university professor? If so, then how exactly would you define a non-tenured professor?
But, let's be realistic. The vast majority of people that have the title NTP do nothing. They don't publish; they don't present. But, I would be hesistant to paint every person that is an NTP with the same brush you have, regardless of anyone's achievements. Blame it on the Korean university system that allows for such slackers in the NTP position, not the foreigners. The opportunity is simply given to people; they simply, as we say in Spanish, aprovechan. |
I think when Mithrae says "masquerading" as a professor he means the following:
Teachers in Korea that will openly refer to themselves as a professor to other westerners. Of course, NTP is the "true" title as you say it, but to a westerner it's quite known that a professor means you have a PhD.
I don't have a problem with someone tellling someone else they are a professor if that is their job title. I do believe though that some people say it with "intent" to upgrade their "status" or "education level".
I still have to say the idea of being called a professor when I don't have a PhD makes me feel uncomfortable. |
Me too. |
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