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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: What is the benefit of being an EU citizen? |
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I'm not being sarcastic or anything. A genuine question that I guess the Brits can answer best (assuming there are no other EU citizens on this board).
I mean, don't most EU countries have a policy of hiring their own citizens first?
So wouldn't that leave just the lower quality jobs or the super-specialized jobs available to those EU citizens who are from another country? I guess it would be rather difficult then to find suitable work in another country for the average Brit?
In practice, what has been your experience? Did you find a satisfying job in another EU country (besides ESL, since that would technically be a "super-specialized" job)
I'm just wondering how "open" the job market really is for EU citizens. |
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PeteMoses
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Depends on who you ask, and what your views on immigration are. Some believe that easy passage for migrantlabour is a good thing, some think it is bad.
In some ways, it's a case of "everyone is equal, just some more than others". A Polish engineer, for example, could land a job as a cleaner in the UK and be earning more than he did back home with his profession.
Don't let a single currency make you think there is a single standard of living, either. In theory it should standardise living costs etc, but we all know how much that can fluctuate.
I think the big advantages come with international trade, EU subsidies and so on. It doesn't always work - it certainly didn't with agriculture - but to some extent it ensures that trade between member states if efficient.
It's the Eastern Block, Ex-Soviet countries that are benefitting the most. New EU allowances for infrastructure etc have seen those countries develop at serious pace, and subsequently have a lot of Member States' money spent within them.
As for ESL in Europe? Well, I came to Asia. For a reason. And it wasn't totally about kimchi. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| A lot of the time it depends on the level that you can speak the language to. I've got an English friend who has just been hired as a fairly high up exec at Chanel. One of the stipulations of the application was that she had to be fluent in French. I've got a friend working in Spain as a geologist - same deal. If you can speak the language, there's little stopping you getting a job elsewhere in the EU. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| A lot of the time it depends on the level that you can speak the language to. I've got an English friend who has just been hired as a fairly high up exec at Chanel. One of the stipulations of the application was that she had to be fluent in French. I've got a friend working in Spain as a geologist - same deal. If you can speak the language, there's little stopping you getting a job elsewhere in the EU. |
Absolutely. OP your original comment about countries only hiring their own and leaving the crummy jobs for everybody else is totally off base. It works just like the US does....is a New Yorker prejudiced in the Floridian economy; do Minnesotans have to wait until all the Californians are employed before he can get a job srubbing toilets clean in San Diego?
The EU provides equal access to labour markets, social welfare systems, residency and everything else that a native of an EU state enjoys in their home country. That means that a Brit will enjoy all the benefits of, for instance, a German citizen in Germany (minus the right to vote in national elections). The only thing that holds British people back from getting good jobs in other countries is a lack of language skills and / or the economic situation of the country they want to live in.
So for instance, heading over to Spain without a good level of Spanish and a bucketload of qualifications is probably not a good idea at the moment as they currently have an unemployment rate approaching 20%.
However if, like me, you speak German and move to Germany then the outlook will be a little better as their economy is larger, in better shape, unemployment is lower and they have 'officially' come out of recession.
N.B. Ireland is also a part of the EU. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
N.B. Ireland is also a part of the EU. |
Yeah, but they're just Britain's adjumma visor. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| oskinny1 wrote: |
| English Matt wrote: |
N.B. Ireland is also a part of the EU. |
Yeah, but they're just Britain's adjumma visor. |
Ajumma visor? Huh? You'd have to work hard on that one before it becomes clever or meaningful.
Ireland is judged by various bodies year after year as one of the best countries in the world to live in. It's often given the number one spot.
Ask the English about 'broken Britain', hoodies, chavs, etc.......offer me a 30,000 pound a year job in Ireland or a 50,000 pound a year gig in England and I'll go for Ireland everytime. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
N.B. Ireland is also a part of the EU. |
In many ways R.O.I is more European now than it is British. They have always forged a separate identity and their recent economic growth stems fom strengthening ties with the EU and bypassing the UK.
| Quote: |
| I mean, don't most EU countries have a policy of hiring their own citizens first? |
I found this to be true in France and Italy, but not in the Netherlands. France is permanently suffering from a sluggish economy and unemployment anyway so I suppose they do have to hire locals first. Theres also a scoop of racism in there as well I think. Britain however hires anybody who is qualified...and it serves them well.
An EU passport is good if you want to retire in Spain and that about it. |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Ah ok thanks everyone.
I read somewhere that there is a policy to hire locals first, since unemployment is relatively high in Europe, so that's why I asked.
By the way English Matt, what will you plan on doing in Germany? |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| oskinny1 wrote: |
| English Matt wrote: |
N.B. Ireland is also a part of the EU. |
Yeah, but they're just Britain's adjumma visor. |
Ajumma visor? Huh? You'd have to work hard on that one before it becomes clever or meaningful.
Ireland is judged by various bodies year after year as one of the best countries in the world to live in. It's often given the number one spot.
Ask the English about 'broken Britain', hoodies, chavs, etc.......offer me a 30,000 pound a year job in Ireland or a 50,000 pound a year gig in England and I'll go for Ireland everytime. |
Actually, no, you don't have to work hard. If Canada can be America's hat, Ireland can be a visor. It seems to have gotten to you though.
Breath in....breath out (repeat) |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: What is the benefit of being an EU citizen? |
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| youtuber wrote: |
I'm not being sarcastic or anything. A genuine question that I guess the Brits can answer best (assuming there are no other EU citizens on this board).
I mean, don't most EU countries have a policy of hiring their own citizens first?
So wouldn't that leave just the lower quality jobs or the super-specialized jobs available to those EU citizens who are from another country? I guess it would be rather difficult then to find suitable work in another country for the average Brit?
In practice, what has been your experience? Did you find a satisfying job in another EU country (besides ESL, since that would technically be a "super-specialized" job)
I'm just wondering how "open" the job market really is for EU citizens. |
Well being able to go anywhere in the EU to teach ESL has to be in there as one of the major plus points (for the likes of us), although I realise you excluded it. But for other nationalities wishing to teach in Spain etc Ive heard some pretty rough stories and apparently the restrictions are getting tighter and tighter.
However, English being as widely spoken as it is, there are plenty of other jobs going out there. I had a few lined up in Prague before I decided to come back to England. I dont think they would have been instantly wonderful jobs but not bad for starters, customer service with household-name British companies who had expanded abroad. They were better paid than TEFL jobs anyway that is for sure and that is why I was considering them over getting a teaching job.
English is also the international language of tourism and therefore there are plenty of jobs going in that area. People go and work in Spain and Greece as holiday reps etc. and one of my best friends just moved to Barcelona and got what sounds like a fairly decent job peddling events tickets to tourists, which isnt bad going in a country where I believe they have something like 20% unemployment at the moment.
This is a unique viewpoint though isnt it? The privilege of speaking English. Basically if you went for a run-of-the-mill office job in say, Italy, youd have to know the language or youd have no chance, like you say. It is the same in England. Alot of the students I teach here have master's degrees and theyre working at coffee shops and fast food outlets, even though they are at a fairly advanced level. The receptionists at our school are taking the final steps to fluency and they dont get much mroe than the minimum wage.
Perhaps the main story for the UK in the EU though has been the massive influx of Eastern Europeans, mainly Poles, who have come in their hundreds of thousands to work here. They do factory work for a low wage and often do horrendously long days. However, they do it for a reason - until recently the UK had one of the world's strongest economies so for people coming here to work they had found a way to earn and save money.
I think it is a GREAT thing though, being able to just wander off into one of those countries and work freely. Obviously TEFL is the obvious choice for someone who wants to travel a bit but if you hated teaching and wanted to go off and travel then the ability to do some work here and there is wonderful. Even if it were just bar jobs/manual labour you could cut a happy trail around some amazing countries without bankrupting yourself. Unfortunately, not that many people take advantage of it. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
Ah ok thanks everyone.
I read somewhere that there is a policy to hire locals first, since unemployment is relatively high in Europe, so that's why I asked.
By the way English Matt, what will you plan on doing in Germany? |
The policy is to hire EU citizens first before hiring someone from abroad (e.g. Canada, the US).
Myself and my girlfriend are moving to Berlin in the summer.....she's signing on for language courses and I'll be doing an internship at a charity in the city whilst improving my German. Beyond that I'll probably have to go back to Uni to get a Masters....not sure if that will be in Berlin or Amsterdam (however that's a couple of years off at the moment so not concentrating too much on that step). |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| English Matt wrote: |
N.B. Ireland is also a part of the EU. |
In many ways R.O.I is more European now than it is British. They have always forged a separate identity and their recent economic growth stems fom strengthening ties with the EU and bypassing the UK.
| Quote: |
| I mean, don't most EU countries have a policy of hiring their own citizens first? |
I found this to be true in France and Italy, but not in the Netherlands. France is permanently suffering from a sluggish economy and unemployment anyway so I suppose they do have to hire locals first. Theres also a scoop of racism in there as well I think. Britain however hires anybody who is qualified...and it serves them well.
An EU passport is good if you want to retire in Spain and that about it. |
Ireland has never been British......they still have much in common with the UK, but have always looked upon Europe more positively than have most Brits.
An EU passport is good for many more things than retiring to Spain....you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I also read that "old" EU states can legally discriminate against hiring pilots, doctors, and some other professions from "new" EU states for a period of 5 (or 7?) years. Even though they are qualified.
That's kind of weird. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
I also read that "old" EU states can legally discriminate against hiring pilots, doctors, and some other professions from "new" EU states for a period of 5 (or 7?) years. Even though they are qualified.
That's kind of weird. |
That's the 2-3-2 system. It was an opt out wrangled by various "old" EU states before they would allow any new countries to join the EU. It meant that any old EU state could apply a sanction against anybody from the new EU states from working in their countries. It can be applied for 2 years to begin with whereupon a decision is made as to whether to allow citizens from new EU countries to be allowed to work or to apply a further 3 year sanction, followed by a 2 year sanction. Countries like Germany were worried that their economies would be overrun if the economies of neighbouring countries, such as Poland, were to be allowed instant, unfettered access to their labour markets. You can literally walk from Poland into eastern Germany (where the economy is already pretty weak). There are arguments for and against this system....personally I feel it is flawed - if you allow a country into the EU, allow them the same rights as every other EU citizen, otherwise why let the country join? |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| The benefit is that your CELTA is actually worth more than an online TEFL certificate. |
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