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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Gibberish
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: An incredibly enlightened article about NET discrimination |
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...in Korea. This article is fantastic, I highly suggest reading it, or at least skimming over the various main sections. It describes the complete whole of NET discrimination, racist groups, propaganda, causation, and brings to light some other interesting issues. Essentially, it sums up the idea that, to Koreans in general, all white males who come to Korea are drug-selling rapists with AIDS. It really nails down the general Xenophobia and cultural divide between native Koreans and the teachers. Even if you've got 100 great Korean friends (which no one does) and you're loved by everyone around you, you'll understand the feeling of being the outsider.
Warning, it's long, but worth a read if you've got time or if you're desk warming today.
http://2009hunma358.blogspot.com/2009/09/1.html |
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nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:26 am Post subject: |
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I suppose I'm left with a sort of wondering sympathy for these poor tortured, feverish and incredibly tiny, insecure minds that are behind such racial hatred.
Its so ridiculous that I can barely take it seriously. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Right, because my fellow white male co-teachers all feel like they are regarded as potential rapists.
Speak for yourselves, not for the many white, male, FTs out there that don't have this perception at all. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: |
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nautilus wrote: |
I suppose I'm left with a sort of wondering sympathy for these poor tortured, feverish and incredibly tiny, insecure minds that are behind such racial hatred.
Its so ridiculous that I can barely take it seriously. |
Honestly can you truly blame them? It's like an uneducated hick who lives in a trailer park and when his biggest accomplishment in life is drinking beer in his grease stained wife-beater while watching Nascar on TV, he has to feel some sort of self-affirmation in the belief that at least he's better than some n***** or a c****. Change a few words and you got pretty much every racist on the planet. |
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benji1422
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Location: Los Angeles & Seoul
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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What are you worried about ? They don't have guns. |
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calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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No, they can just punch, kick and drag you around in the street, and then have the cops arrest and throw you in jail.
That's all.
And heaven help you if you so much as throw a punch ... |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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I get just as angry about this kind of nonsense as the next person, but I think dwelling on it is just... I don't know.
It's not everybody. I don't even think it's a majority. And over time, as more and more foreigners come to Korea, it will change. We're here at an unlucky time, when Korea is really struggling with these issues and having to face becoming "international" in some senses.
Granted, I am not a man, and I am let off the hook on a lot of this baloney because of that. I've had more than one Korean complain to me about "foreigners" and "bad behavior" and the qualify it with, "Well not you of course -- you're a woman. I'm talking about the men." In general, because of the broad gender distinctions made in Korean culture, I am aware that I have it easier, in this sense.
Being aware of what's going on out there is important, not in the least because it's important that we make the Korean friends we do have aware of it, as well. My Korean friends have been appalled when I've shown them things like the Anti-English Spectrum Cafe website. A lot of them aren't even aware things like this exist. Or they haven't been paying enough attention (from our perspective) to the newspapers to notice how often one of these ridiculous xenophobic stories gets published.
But in your daily life, dwelling on it is just going to make you miserable. Surround yourself with people who aren't backwoods and you'll be alright. As for the rest of it, it will change overtime. It has to. |
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alpope23

Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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fermentation wrote: |
nautilus wrote: |
I suppose I'm left with a sort of wondering sympathy for these poor tortured, feverish and incredibly tiny, insecure minds that are behind such racial hatred.
Its so ridiculous that I can barely take it seriously. |
Honestly can you truly blame them? It's like an uneducated hick who lives in a trailer park and when his biggest accomplishment in life is drinking beer in his grease stained wife-beater while watching Nascar on TV, he has to feel some sort of self-affirmation in the belief that at least he's better than some n***** or a c****. Change a few words and you got pretty much every racist on the planet. |
Hey, at least you are better than the hick in your example. Or did you just do the same thing your stereotype example is accused of? Where is your self-affirmation now?  |
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sojusucks

Joined: 31 May 2008
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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The article asks the question, Who is "Anti-English Spectrum"? Examine the source of the funding. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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alpope23 wrote: |
Hey, at least you are better than the hick in your example. Or did you just do the same thing your stereotype example is accused of? Where is your self-affirmation now?  |
Hey I never said I didn't stereotype people to feel better about myself. |
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nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:21 am Post subject: |
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I'm no Picasso wrote: |
I get just as angry about this kind of nonsense as the next person, but I think dwelling on it is just... I don't know.
It's not everybody. I don't even think it's a majority. And over time, as more and more foreigners come to Korea, it will change. We're here at an unlucky time, when Korea is really struggling with these issues. |
My feelings as well.
We're sacrificial lambs at this point, future eslers 10 or 20 years from now will hopefully have an easier time of it.
Its a fear of the unknown that is gripping Koreans. When you realise that 90% of them have never had any meaningful interraction with a foreigner and have only racist and one-sided media reports to go on, its very easy to see why it is like it is.
As the language barrier dissolves and Koreans can actually have a normal conversation with a foreigner much of this stupidity will vanish. At the moment its still at the level of very shallow , uneasy or superficial intercultural interraction.
I know that with the language barrier gone Koreans can and do make great, normal and happy friends with foreigners. Its only a minority that is hard core racists here, but unfortunately its still a sizeable enough of a minority to make life here unpleasant for outsiders. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Q: How large is the Anti-English Spectrum? How does this compare to other orgs. in developed countries in terms of membership.
Now, should we act like the AES is this dominating political group or should we treat it like the fringe group it is.
If the AES were not a fringe group we would not get statements like this-
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A lot of them aren't even aware things like this exist. |
Every country is going to have its nationalist hate group. Don't let them win by filling your heart with fear and anger. If the AES forms a party and wins seats in the Legislature, then yes, it might be time to raise concern.
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Or they haven't been paying enough attention (from our perspective) to the newspapers to notice how often one of these ridiculous xenophobic stories gets published. |
We seem to have this expectation that Koreans should be checking the Korean Times or the Korea Herald (in English mind you) For the latest racist article. Sorry, but the reason there are these inflammatory articles is a desperate attempt to increase readership and visitation to these newspapers websites. Racism (News of, op-eds on, etc.) sells.
Or we can view the situation like this:
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We're sacrificial lambs at this point |
Again, speak for yourself. I know plenty of successful, happy FTs here who aren't 'living in terror'. |
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Goon-Yang
Joined: 28 May 2009 Location: Duh
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Things in the future will be better? Who said that? Are they sure? Things were3n't this bad ten years ago. Sure you'd get more of the "there is a foreigner" stare, but all this crap in the media...things might get worse. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
Q: How large is the Anti-English Spectrum? How does this compare to other orgs. in developed countries in terms of membership.
Now, should we act like the AES is this dominating political group or should we treat it like the fringe group it is.
If the AES were not a fringe group we would not get statements like this-
Quote: |
A lot of them aren't even aware things like this exist. |
Every country is going to have its nationalist hate group. Don't let them win by filling your heart with fear and anger. If the AES forms a party and wins seats in the Legislature, then yes, it might be time to raise concern.
Quote: |
Or they haven't been paying enough attention (from our perspective) to the newspapers to notice how often one of these ridiculous xenophobic stories gets published. |
We seem to have this expectation that Koreans should be checking the Korean Times or the Korea Herald (in English mind you) For the latest racist article. Sorry, but the reason there are these inflammatory articles is a desperate attempt to increase readership and visitation to these newspapers websites. Racism (News of, op-eds on, etc.) sells.
Or we can view the situation like this:
Quote: |
We're sacrificial lambs at this point |
Again, speak for yourself. I know plenty of successful, happy FTs here who aren't 'living in terror'. |
STOP DEFENDING RACISM!!! Seriously. How screwed up are you?
The other day you said it was ok for an older man to constantly yell at me that "Korea is for Koreans." The evidence in that blog post/presentation is overwhelming.
What you should be saying is that that group is WRONG. That group needs to be exposed. And that group needs to have it's access to government policy making abolished. That website needs to be shutdown.
After you say all that you can then say, "but I don't think the majority of Koreans think or feel this way, and I'm sure they don't even know that site exists."
When a suicide bomber blows him or herself up, or some other parallel, you say the act was wrong. You say that over, and over, and over again. And then you say that maybe the majority of muslims don't feel the same way. You don't skip the first part ignoring the deaths of XX people as well as the violence and destruction.
Seriously, what's your problem? |
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nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Goon-Yang wrote: |
Things in the future will be better? Who said that? Are they sure? Things were3n't this bad ten years ago. Sure you'd get more of the "there is a foreigner" stare, but all this crap in the media...things might get worse. |
For me, things going better depends on..
A) Koreans learning english properly in a system that works...and interracting meaningfully with foreigners to a greater degree. However at the moment they appear to be taking a backward step in the education system to placate the xenophobes.
B) Govt. acting to raise media standards and shutting down blatantly racist, inaccurate and unprofessional reporting, and instilling objectivity and rationality. So far there seems to be no sign of this happening, but if the internatioal media starts to scrutinise Korea more, we might see developments.
c) Generational change. This does not bode too well because the country has a growing older population and this age group (40-60's) are the most tenacious in resistance to change. |
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