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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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 Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Stewz wrote: |
| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| Not that it's particularly feasible, but one solar power station the size of Manhattan in orbit could power the entire planet for the foreseeable future. |
All we need is the sun to power the planet. |
Dyson Sphere FTW! |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
In a free market, poor people are not "left to die"; they are either given free care (not turned away by doctors, even if they have no money), or helped out by charity organizations. In free communities people look after each other- it's quite natural doncha know?
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Oh really? Would you like to show me some numbers behind this ridiculous claim? |
Of course he wouldn't. The Libertarian extremists on this board don't interact with reality. They make claims about what would happen in counterfactual situations that have never existed, and then insult you if you don't accept their questionable assertions. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| Stewz wrote: |
| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| Not that it's particularly feasible, but one solar power station the size of Manhattan in orbit could power the entire planet for the foreseeable future. |
All we need is the sun to power the planet. |
Dyson Sphere FTW! |
Careful, it might wig out and almost trap the Enterprise-D inside. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| ...the fat baby could be covered, at the appropriate cost. |
You fail to understand why socialized medicine exists - to cover those who can't afford it. You may think they shouldn't get it if they're poor - if you do you're heartless. |
You're missing the point. Which is that socialism impoverishes people, makes them dependent on the state, and then you feel lucky to take what you can get. |
No the point is that letting poor people die in order to ensure that insurance companies maximize profits is criminal. |
In a free market, poor people are not "left to die"; they are either given free care (not turned away by doctors, even if they have no money), or helped out by charity organizations. In free communities people look after each other- it's quite natural doncha know?
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Care to list where these free markets are? |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
In a free market, poor people are not "left to die"; they are either given free care (not turned away by doctors, even if they have no money), or helped out by charity organizations. In free communities people look after each other- it's quite natural doncha know?
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Oh really? Would you like to show me some numbers behind this ridiculous claim? |
Of course he wouldn't. The Libertarian extremists on this board don't interact with reality. They make claims about what would happen in counterfactual situations that have never existed, and then insult you if you don't accept their questionable assertions. |
Quit making excuses for yourself. It has little to do with the "opinions" you hold (nobody cares): people on here just don't like you as a person, because you're basically arrogant, smug, and think you always know better. Who are you to label us (people with libertarian views) "extremists", just because you don't agree with our opinions? Considering you have very few facts to present (just your opinions), you're pretty hypocritical. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| ...the fat baby could be covered, at the appropriate cost. |
You fail to understand why socialized medicine exists - to cover those who can't afford it. You may think they shouldn't get it if they're poor - if you do you're heartless. |
You're missing the point. Which is that socialism impoverishes people, makes them dependent on the state, and then you feel lucky to take what you can get. |
No the point is that letting poor people die in order to ensure that insurance companies maximize profits is criminal. |
In a free market, poor people are not "left to die"; they are either given free care (not turned away by doctors, even if they have no money), or helped out by charity organizations. In free communities people look after each other- it's quite natural doncha know?
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Care to list where these free markets are? |
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying the market has been free. It can't be free when the government enabled cartels (like the health insurance cartel) monopolize the markets. I'm just saying that Obama-care and increased bureaucracy is going to be far worse for the public (and even more beneficial to the insurance companies) than what we have now. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
In a free market, poor people are not "left to die"; they are either given free care (not turned away by doctors, even if they have no money), or helped out by charity organizations. In free communities people look after each other- it's quite natural doncha know?
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Oh really? Would you like to show me some numbers behind this ridiculous claim? |
So you aren't familiar with any numbers, and yet feel you can label it "ridiculous"? Seems pretty prejudiced.
A few points I'd like to ask you:
- do you think people are really "entitled" to free medical service?
- if you want to help people, why not donate to a charity?
- do you think it's ethical to force people to pay taxes to pay for insurance for other people?
- do you think it's ethical to force people to have insurance?
- have you ever heard of someone being turned away from a hospital and dying?
- why are you so quick to dismiss the idea that doctors give free service to those who truly need it? Believe it or not, most doctors are in it to help people (not for the money).
Doctors are there to help people. Insurance companies and government bureaucracy aren't. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:47 am Post subject: Arrogant? |
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| you're basically arrogant, smug, and think you always know better. |
Pot, meet kettle!
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| Doctors are there to help people. Insurance companies and government bureaucracy aren't. |
I'd strongly agree with that statement. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Arrogant? |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| you're basically arrogant, smug, and think you always know better. |
Pot, meet kettle! |
Actually, while I admit I can be stubborn at times, I pretty well never instigate these arguments. I usually ignore Fox as a rule (debating with him is a waste of time), until he sticks his nose into my business with some unwarranted, smart ass comment.
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| Quote: |
| Doctors are there to help people. Insurance companies and government bureaucracy aren't. |
I'd strongly agree with that statement. |
I guess that makes you an "extremist". |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
In a free market, poor people are not "left to die"; they are either given free care (not turned away by doctors, even if they have no money), or helped out by charity organizations. In free communities people look after each other- it's quite natural doncha know?
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Oh really? Would you like to show me some numbers behind this ridiculous claim? |
Studies have been done that show that as socialistic spending programs designed to "help the poor and needy" have increased, the amount of private giving to charity has decreased. The general public cannot give as much after being robbed by the tax system. They become disgusted and alienated by the socialists who claim to be caring for everyone but suck the lifeblood out of the economy and impoverish the nation.
In addition, the total amount of aid going to the needy has declined throughout the twentieth century as socialism has increased. Even though it costs the people more, taxes plus private charity is greater than private charity was before, the poor get less. This is due to the absolute evil greed upon which the whole concept of socialism is based.
When the government spends a dollar to help the poor, the total cost of the government handling and getting that dollar from collection through the politicians and bureaucrats that suck at the tit of government until that dollar finally gets to the recipient who was the purported reason for the spending - the total cost for the government is $4 to provide $1 in aid.
In the private sector, it costs 8 cents to 20 cents for private churches and charities to provide $1 in aid.
If we really want to help the needy, we need to abolish the socialistic government that makes them poor, get rid of the greedy, power-grabbing, politicians who use the poor to enrich themselves, their families, their friends and various powerful allies and factotums.
We need to let the people, the general public, take care of themselves and take care of the truly needy.
If the socialist hypocrites would each go out and help just one needy person or one needy family, in fact if each family of socialist hypocrites would go out and try to help just one needy person or family they would find that there are not enough needy to go around. They could easily help one person or one family, but they don't.
This is how the needy would be helped in a free market. It is how things were when America was much poorer and there was very little socialism. People helped people. People were more generous and they expected to help others in need. This is how things can be again, and better as the country gets richer there are fewer needy and more to share.
But, the socialists don't want such a system. They don't want it because they know it will actually work, without the government and without power and money for them. The socialists don't like liberty, free markets and a rich society where all are cared for because socialists are greedy and rapacious.
The purpose of socialism is to create power and put it in the hands of politically ambitious fascist-socialists and to allow them to enrich themselves at the expense of the general public. Socialists benefit from poverty, war, disease, poor health care and lower living standards. It gives them more excuses to grab more power and steal more money for themselves. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Quit making excuses for yourself. It has little to do with the "opinions" you hold (nobody cares): people on here just don't like you as a person, because you're basically arrogant, smug, and think you always know better. |
Thanks for your opinion on the matter, Mr. Beck.
| visitorq wrote: |
| Who are you to label us (people with libertarian views) "extremists", just because you don't agree with our opinions? |
You're not an extremist because I don't agree with you. You're an extremist because you're a conspiracy-obsessed radical who opposes the moderate governmental system most people are comfortable with. I don't know why that fact bothers you so much; I don't even say it as an insult, just a simple truth. When someone called me a radical regarding my opinions about the ethics of soldering, I accepted it, because it was true. I didn't whine about it like a little girl whose feelings are hurt. Evidently you aren't man enough to do the same thing. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
Quit making excuses for yourself. It has little to do with the "opinions" you hold (nobody cares): people on here just don't like you as a person, because you're basically arrogant, smug, and think you always know better. |
Thanks for your opinion on the matter, Mr. Beck. |
Get a new line already. You have more in common with him than I do - and you share more of the same views.
| Quote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Who are you to label us (people with libertarian views) "extremists", just because you don't agree with our opinions? |
You're not an extremist because I don't agree with you. You're an extremist because you're a conspiracy-obsessed radical who opposes the moderate governmental system most people are comfortable with. I don't know why that fact bothers you so much; I don't even say it as an insult, just a simple truth. When someone called me a radical regarding my opinions about the ethics of soldering, I accepted it, because it was true. I didn't whine about it like a little girl whose feelings are hurt. Evidently you aren't man enough to do the same thing. |
Fox, you're getting pathetic now. I seriously think there's as many people on here (maybe even more) who share my views as share yours, and I also feel we do a much better job of making our case in most threads. You're probably labeling 10 or more regular posters on here "extremists" just because they don't buy into your agenda (which is un-backed by anything other than the socialist propaganda you espouse). All you can do is call us "nuts" and try and discredit us ad hominem. It's pathetic. Get over yourself already. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
Quit making excuses for yourself. It has little to do with the "opinions" you hold (nobody cares): people on here just don't like you as a person, because you're basically arrogant, smug, and think you always know better. |
Thanks for your opinion on the matter, Mr. Beck. |
Get a new line already. You have more in common with him than I do - and you share more of the same views. |
A pointless lie. Like Mr. Beck, you're constantly hating on the current administration, screaming about how we're losing our freedoms, being melodramatic about the horrors of government, and launching into conspiracy theories. Reading your posts is like watching his show. Sorry that bothers you.
| visitorq wrote: |
| Quote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Who are you to label us (people with libertarian views) "extremists", just because you don't agree with our opinions? |
You're not an extremist because I don't agree with you. You're an extremist because you're a conspiracy-obsessed radical who opposes the moderate governmental system most people are comfortable with. I don't know why that fact bothers you so much; I don't even say it as an insult, just a simple truth. When someone called me a radical regarding my opinions about the ethics of soldering, I accepted it, because it was true. I didn't whine about it like a little girl whose feelings are hurt. Evidently you aren't man enough to do the same thing. |
Fox, you're getting pathetic now. I seriously think there's as many people on here (maybe even more) who share my views as share yours ... |
Nonsense. Given I'm for moderate, reasonable levels of government, the vast majority of people here share my views, while only a very few share yours. More importantly, only a tiny, tiny portion of society consist of radical Libertarians. Most people, for instance, aren't screaming that income-tax is unconstitutional despite it being in the Constitution. Only people in a tiny, special category do totally inane things like that.
That said, people like you may be rare, but they're loud.
| visitorq wrote: |
| ... and I also feel we do a much better job of making our case in most threads. |
Of course you feel that way, because you agree with what you say. The fact that you'd even say such a thing is embarassingly ridiculous; everyone thinks they do a better job making their case than the opposition does.
| visitorq wrote: |
| You're probably labeling 10 or more regular posters on here "extremists" ... |
Who are these 10 posters? I can think of maybe 2 or 3 that are ridiculous ultra-extremist Libertarians, and a a few more that are moderates with Libertarian leanings (who assuredly shouldn't be put into the same category as people such as yourself).
| visitorq wrote: |
| All you can do is call us "nuts" and try and discredit us ad hominem. It's pathetic. Get over yourself already. |
I don't need to discredit you; you discredit yourself. You're doing it right now with your pathetic whining and angry ranting. And that suits me just fine; every time you open your mouth, you remind the moderate majority of what extremist Libertarians are like, and that helps to keep people from falling for your nonsense. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Solar Station |
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Nice. I'll be interested to see how the microwave tests go. I hope they have good aim. |
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