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midnightdrive
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: Ahhhhh.... |
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| Yes, people make grammatical mistakes sometimes. It happens even to the best of us. |
I fail to see any evidence that you are among the best of us.
midnightdrive wrote:
I�m not going to waste my time reading over that dreadful contract again�I can�t say you or the hagwon owner are worth the unpaid time and effort to me--but from what I can remember off the top of my head the vacation time was a joke as it is with most hagwons. What�s worse is that they tried to tell you when you could take your vacation time which is illegal.
Konglishman wrote:
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| I have never heard of that being illegal. Like another poster pointed out, that is fairly standard at hagwons. |
Which only goes to prove my point that you are still relatively inexperienced or naive. Standard or not, illegal is illegal and wrong is wrong.
midnightdrive wrote:
If you really want to know what it�s like, then you could always palm pangaea who has worked there.
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Konglishman wrote:
Or after I get back to Korea, I can ask my friend who previously worked there. |
But you don't want to talk to pangaea because why exactly? Why is that? Is it your inner slave talking?
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| Konglishman wrote: To the best of my knowledge, those people went on to get jobs at either a university or an international school. At any rate, I will say no more on that particular matter. |
Which is not difficult to do if you have a B.A., a personality, and a modicum of political ability.
It really does blow my mind that there are people out there who are all too willing to give hagwon owners the benefit of the doubt. Well, I suppose such people deserve to work at hagwons. You and your friends have graduated from the hagwon life but your minds are still in the Dark Ages. It looks like you and your friends fit into type 2. "You are more than happy to be a slave and to defend your corrupt master after you've taken your lashings." Eventually you'll learn. Then again maybe you like being mistreated. I can't say I share your sickness. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Ahhhhh.... |
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| midnightdrive wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes, people make grammatical mistakes sometimes. It happens even to the best of us. |
I fail to see any evidence that you are among the best of us. |
And I can see little reason why I should provide a bitter person like yourself with such evidence.
| midnightdrive wrote: |
I�m not going to waste my time reading over that dreadful contract again�I can�t say you or the hagwon owner are worth the unpaid time and effort to me--but from what I can remember off the top of my head the vacation time was a joke as it is with most hagwons. What�s worse is that they tried to tell you when you could take your vacation time which is illegal.
| Konglishman wrote: |
| I have never heard of that being illegal. Like another poster pointed out, that is fairly standard at hagwons. |
Which only goes to prove my point that you are still relatively inexperienced or naive. Standard or not, illegal is illegal and wrong is wrong. |
You keep saying that it is illegal, but you have yet to back up that statement with a source. Also, I might add that unless it applied only to hagwons, such a labor regulation would make little sense. For example, a Korean literature teacher at a public school, cannot just decide to go on vacation anytime he or she wants. After all, there are specific dates when school is in session and therefore the school will need the teacher there at those times in order to properly function. In short, I can still reasonably be skeptical about your assertion.
| midnightdrive wrote: |
| midnightdrive wrote: |
| If you really want to know what it�s like, then you could always palm pangaea who has worked there. |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Or after I get back to Korea, I can ask my friend who previously worked there. |
But you don't want to talk to pangaea because why exactly? Why is that? Is it your inner slave talking? |
Frankly, this topic is not a priority for me as I have more important things to do and think about today. Besides, I prefer to get my information from sources that I know and trust.
| midnightrun wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| To the best of my knowledge, those people went on to get jobs at either a university or an international school. At any rate, I will say no more on that particular matter. |
Which is not difficult to do if you have a B.A., a personality, and a modicum of political ability. |
Like I said, I am saying no more on this particular matter. Believe whatever you want. It does not matter to me.
| midnightrun wrote: |
| It really does blow my mind that there are people out there who are all too willing to give hagwon owners the benefit of the doubt. Well, I suppose such people deserve to work at hagwons. You and your friends have graduated from the hagwon life but your minds are still in the Dark Ages. It looks like you and your friends fit into type 2. "You are more than happy to be a slave and to defend your corrupt master after you've taken your lashings." Eventually you'll learn. Then again maybe you like being mistreated. I can't say I share your sickness. |
Clearly, you are a bitter person with a need to denigrate other people in order to validate yourself.
Last edited by Konglishman on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:24 am; edited 2 times in total |
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MissGiggles
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: Thinking about this specific job... |
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| Hey Pangaea, will you PM me about the Gwangju You and I school? I'm looking to switch my job location and have been interested in Gwangju city. The You and I English school was one of my top picks I wanted to pursue. I've heard some good and bad things but no specifics really... I'd appreciate your story. I'm a new user and cannot yet PM others. |
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ftoz
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:23 am Post subject: 2 jasons |
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I worked there for 2 years. There were absolutely no problems.
Someone mentioned the 2 Jason's. One owns a franchise and one owns the original school. They are 2 different people.
When I was hired he gave out a bunch of emails of current and former teachers, just ask for those emails and then you can get a feel for what's going on.
Totally straight up. |
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ftoz
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:27 am Post subject: BTW |
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| BTW, foreigners can own businesses in Korea. |
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midnightdrive
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:16 am Post subject: Ahhh |
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| And I can see little reason why I should provide a bitter person like yourself with such evidence. |
Bitter? No. Annoyed? Yes. Koreans are a xenophobic and authoritarian bunch. Capitalism and Confucianism don't really make a good combination. I have had students tell me that they really want to work for a foreign company so they don't have to work 60 or 70 hours a week. Koreans don't even treat each other well. But there are worse places in the world that I have survived. It seems you enjoy the mistreatment. It's a masochistic tendency that we do not share. Hey, why not try working in Sudan or the Congo? I bet you would just love those places.
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| You keep saying that it is illegal, but you have yet to back up that statement with a source. Also, I might add that unless it applied only to hagwons, such a labor regulation would make little sense. For example, a Korean literature teacher at a public school, cannot just decide to go on vacation anytime he or she wants. After all, there are specific dates when school is in session and therefore the school will need the teacher there at those times in order to properly function. In short, I can still reasonably be skeptical about your assertion. |
Skeptical, sure but not right. It's not my job to teach you what you should already know. If you want to know the labor laws, then just do a simple google search. As long as we're throwing names around, I really have to tell you that you are a very sappy, insipid, stubborn, and inane person.
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| Frankly, this topic is not a priority for me as I have more important things to do and think about today. Besides, I prefer to get my information from sources that I know and trust. |
We had a president in America with the same proclivity. Believe it or not but he lead us down the wrong path.
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| Like I said, I am saying no more on this particular matter. Believe whatever you want. It does not matter to me. |
Are you going to fold your arms and pout too? It looks like someone needs some time in the quiet corner
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| Clearly, you are a bitter person with a need to denigrate other people in order to validate yourself. |
"Validate". That's a big person's word taught in Psychology 101 classes and also on Oprah. You might want to avoid using it as it doesn't appear your mind can grasp such simple concepts.
| Quote: |
| Hey Pangaea, will you PM me about the Gwangju You and I school? I'm looking to switch my job location and have been interested in Gwangju city. The You and I English school was one of my top picks I wanted to pursue. I've heard some good and bad things but no specifics really... I'd appreciate your story. I'm a new user and cannot yet PM others. |
Come on Pangaea. Don't be shy. Hagwon owners don't have as much power as they would like you to think they do. As long as people keep knuckling under to them, they're going to keep getting away with what they've been doing.
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| When I was hired he gave out a bunch of emails of current and former teachers, just ask for those emails and then you can get a feel for what's going on. |
E-mailing is not a good method. It's too easy for other foreign teachers to lie via that method which is what many of them do because they don't want to lose their severance pay and utilities deposits if they say anything that would make their employer unhappy. You should know that by now. Get someone on the phone. It's not what they say so much as how they say it.
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| BTW, foreigners can own businesses in Korea. |
Since when? Koreans can own convenience stores and houses in the US and they can buy imported cars without having to pay ridiculous import taxes. It's funny they don't offer the same treatment to foreigners in their own country. Well, funny's not really the right word but you can see what I'm getting at.
They're also not building that US military base as quickly down in Pyeongtaek as they said they would. They want the US military to help defend them against the North Koreans but they don't want to pay to build the base after they've already agreed to do so. By the way, they've renotiated the SOFA agreement to make it harder for US military contractors to stay in Korea. There are guys who have been here for 30 years who are leaving because of these new regulations. Just like English teachers are leaving because of all the games that Immigration has been playing with us. It's funny how only the Korean perspective gets through in the news. They only want to talk about all the pedophiles with HIV molesting their children and the nasty soldiers who rape their daughters. Anti-Americanism is very bad here right now.
Believe it or not but hagwon owners have been known to put their current employees up to posting on this website to defend a school when it's getting bad reviews. You know how Koreans are about image. It's everything to them. Just a little something to think about if you're really considering taking this job. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:42 am Post subject: Re: Ahhh |
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| midnightdrive wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And I can see little reason why I should provide a bitter person like yourself with such evidence. |
Bitter? No. Annoyed? Yes. Koreans are a xenophobic and authoritarian bunch. Capitalism and Confucianism don't really make a good combination. I have had students tell me that they really want to work for a foreign company so they don't have to work 60 or 70 hours a week. Koreans don't even treat each other well. But there are worse places in the world that I have survived. It seems you enjoy the mistreatment. It's a masochistic tendency that we do not share. Hey, why not try working in Sudan or the Congo? I bet you would just love those places. |
It seems that you have missed my point entirely. My point was that I am not going to provide you with information about my qualifications which could potentially compromise my anonymity. For all I know, should that happen, you would try to cause some sort of problems for me.
As for your points regarding capitalism and confucianism, I actually agree with you for the most part. But of course, that is an entirely different discussion, now isn't it. So, now, lets stay on topic.
And for the record, your continuing negativity is evidence enough to me that you are a bitter person.
| midnightrun wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You keep saying that it is illegal, but you have yet to back up that statement with a source. Also, I might add that unless it applied only to hagwons, such a labor regulation would make little sense. For example, a Korean literature teacher at a public school, cannot just decide to go on vacation anytime he or she wants. After all, there are specific dates when school is in session and therefore the school will need the teacher there at those times in order to properly function. In short, I can still reasonably be skeptical about your assertion. |
Skeptical, sure but not right. It's not my job to teach you what you should already know. If you want to know the labor laws, then just do a simple google search. As long as we're throwing names around, I really have to tell you that you are a very sappy, insipid, stubborn, and inane person. |
I have not seen such a labor regulation on google. Further, if it is so easy to find, why don't you simply post an internet source? Then, you will have proven your point, albeit a weak one. Yet, you still have not done this and now wish to turn this into some sort of vocabulary contest.
| midnightrun wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Frankly, this topic is not a priority for me as I have more important things to do and think about today. Besides, I prefer to get my information from sources that I know and trust. |
We had a president in America with the same proclivity. Believe it or not but he lead us down the wrong path. |
You are bringing American politics into this discussion? Seriously?
| midnightrun wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Like I said, I am saying no more on this particular matter. Believe whatever you want. It does not matter to me. |
Are you going to fold your arms and pout too? It looks like someone needs some time in the quiet corner. |
For the last time, I am not going to say anything more about my friends' backgrounds. It would be entirely unreasonable of me to endanger their anonymity.
| midnightrun wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Clearly, you are a bitter person with a need to denigrate other people in order to validate yourself. |
"Validate". That's a big person's word taught in Psychology 101 classes and also on Oprah. You might want to avoid using it as it doesn't appear your mind can grasp such simple concepts. |
Yet, this very disparaging comment you just made would appear to prove my point. If we are going to discuss this topic further, lets move beyond the ad hominem comments. |
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midnightdrive
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:35 am Post subject: La la la la la la la lie |
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| It seems that you have missed my point entirely. My point was that I am not going to provide you with information about my qualifications which could potentially compromise my anonymity. For all I know, should that happen, you would try to cause some sort of problems for me. |
So you're fearful.
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| As for your points regarding capitalism and confucianism, I actually agree with you for the most part. But of course, that is an entirely different discussion, now isn't it. So, now, lets stay on topic. |
Well, at least we can agree on something.
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| And for the record, your continuing negativity is evidence enough to me that you are a bitter person. |
And your continued obliviousness is evidence to me that you are clueless.
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| Yet, this very disparaging comment you just made would appear to prove my point. If we are going to discuss this topic further, lets move beyond the ad hominem comments. |
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| I have not seen such a labor regulation on google. Further, if it is so easy to find, why don't you simply post an internet source? Then, you will have proven your point, albeit a weak one. Yet, you still have not done this and now wish to turn this into some sort of vocabulary contest. |
Consider it a homework assignment. There were also two punctuation mistakes in your last post. You can work on that too. Did you really think that I was going to let you call me "bitter" based on a brief back and forth and not strike back?
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| You are bringing American politics into this discussion? Seriously? |
Just making a point that friends aren't always reliable authority figures. I think even you can understand that.
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| For the last time, I am not going to say anything more about my friends' backgrounds. It would be entirely unreasonable of me to endanger their anonymity. |
Because then we might see how wishy-washy and sheepish they are, too. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: Re: La la la la la la la lie |
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| midnightdrive wrote: |
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| It seems that you have missed my point entirely. My point was that I am not going to provide you with information about my qualifications which could potentially compromise my anonymity. For all I know, should that happen, you would try to cause some sort of problems for me. |
So you're fearful. |
There are not many foreigners who do what I do. So, telling you what my qualifications are on an online forum, would be foolish at best.
| midnightrun wrote: |
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| And for the record, your continuing negativity is evidence enough to me that you are a bitter person. |
And your continued obliviousness is evidence to me that you are clueless. |
Frankly, I am not interested in having a silly tit-for-tat discussion with you. It adds no value to this discussion.
| midnightrun wrote: |
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| I have not seen such a labor regulation on google. Further, if it is so easy to find, why don't you simply post an internet source? Then, you will have proven your point, albeit a weak one. Yet, you still have not done this and now wish to turn this into some sort of vocabulary contest. |
Consider it a homework assignment. There were also two punctuation mistakes in your last post. You can work on that too. Did you really think that I was going to let you call me "bitter" based on a brief back and forth and not strike back? |
Perhaps, I should add "anal" to your description. Now, listen to me for a second. If you do not want to be considered "bitter", "anal", or any other adjective that you find objectionable, then it is up to you to change the tone of your responses. So, in the spirit of debate, lets change the tone of these posts from one of disrespect to one of respect.
| midnightrun wrote: |
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| You are bringing American politics into this discussion? Seriously? |
Just making a point that friends aren't always reliable authority figures. I think even you can understand that. |
I think that I know my friends better than you do. Also, I think the comments made by internet posters are not always reliable indicators of what is happening. Much of what is said on daveseslcafe, needs to be taken with a grain of salt. That is precisely why I am challenging you to back up your statements with more than just your word.
| midnightrun wrote: |
| Quote: |
| For the last time, I am not going to say anything more about my friends' backgrounds. It would be entirely unreasonable of me to endanger their anonymity. |
Because then we might see how wishy-washy and sheepish they are, too. |
I am not going to dignify a response to that other than to say it seems to me that you are simply trying to take this discussion into a tangential direction.
Now, I am still waiting for you to post an internet source supporting your assertion that schools are not allowed to set the vacation time. Like I mentioned earlier, if that is true, it is a weak point at best given that this is a fairly standard practice. So, why don't you post other labor violations that you think that you have found? Surely, it cannot be that hard to read through that contract again. If you do not do this, then in my opinion, there is nothing further to discuss. |
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sashm13
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| I have just accepted a job with Gwangju you and I. Can anyone who's worked with them describe their experiences. Jason seems like a good guy, but he's difficult to get a hold of sometimes. I'm a newbie so a bit nervous all round. |
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AwakeInGwangju
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| sashm13 wrote: |
| I have just accepted a job with Gwangju you and I. Can anyone who's worked with them describe their experiences. Jason seems like a good guy, but he's difficult to get a hold of sometimes. I'm a newbie so a bit nervous all round. |
I know this will be a drag for you to read, but if you are still in your home country then back out of that agreement, don't work for You and I and find another hogwan. I hope I am not saying this too late. |
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PJustin
Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Be careful |
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| Steve Schertzer wrote: |
| midnightdrive wrote: |
| First it's Jason Fowler, then it's Jason Kelly. Something shady is going on. I corresponded with this guy briefly and he sent me a contract that had so many labor violations in it that I lost count. He'll try to get you to think that it's a good job because the place is Western managed but it appears that his Korean wife is the one wearing the pants. Or, that he's learned to do things the Korean way because he figured out that exploiting his own kind is very profitable. He has 9 schools now! You know he's not hurting for money. |
The Korean wife wears the pants because she has control of the money and the business. A foreigner, by law, can't own a business in Korea. It must be in her name, the Korean national. Fowler, like any other foreigner, is nothing but the ubiquitious white face at the front door so that all the parents can see what a great place it is. Western managed is just that--- pretending to be the caring white face at the front door. In my many years in this industry, it's the foreigners that you really have to look out for. They'll screw you more than any Korean. |
Please be positive to the people and the world and look back on yourself. If you are negative at every aspect, you will lose many good stuff before you try. |
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sashm13
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| AwakeinGwangju, can you please tell me what your problems were with this school. I'm new so I can't PM, so can you PM me. |
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roosky87
Joined: 07 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| It's looks like no one has written on the topic for awhile. I'm new to this and can't pm yet. Any detail from someone who used to or is currently working there would be appreciated. |
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QazPlm
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: Beware |
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1. The Books: The books are terrible!! It's embarrassing to teach with them. There are 2 editions but the content of the second is the 80-90% the same...just the pictures are slightly better. Here are a few of the reasons I am not a fan of the books:
� Racial slurs/Inappropriate pictures
� Stereotyping
� Strange and sometimes disturbing vocabulary:
� bizarre dialogs
2.Promised Teaching Materials Not Provided &/or are Inadequate: We were told we'd receive; Lesson Plans, Teacher's guides, Tests, and Additional Teaching Materials.
� The lesson plans are nothing more than a time line: "Teach this book for 10 minutes. Teach this page for 10 minutes, this page for 15 min, and this page for 15 min." That is your lesson plan. No activities. No �plan�
� The teacher's guide is a million photo copies of each of the 36 student books.
� Tests: grammar errors, typos, strange confusing questions
� Additional Teaching Materials: The computer lab (really just a power point presentation of the book) is FULL of errors; Misspellings, Pronouns that don't match the picture on the screen, etc.
In case someone reading this post hasn't taught before, this link demonstrates what REAL teaching materials look like:
http://www.cambridge.org/us/esl/catalog/subject/project/item2424300/Connect/?site_locale=en_US¤tSubjectID=2489433
3. Not all You & I's are western run. The franchise/books were created by a Canadian guy. Some of the branches are run by westerners, but the majority are not. You will be told that you will be placed at a western run school...don't believe it. Some of the owners cannot speak English well. This is not uncommon in Hogwans, but you should just know You and I is no exception.
4. Money Issues: Some of the teachers� salaries are or have been mis-reported to the government. This negatively affected their pension.
5. Housing: You may be told you'll get private housing. Don't believe that either. Many teachers were lied to about their housing situation only to learn the truth when they arrived.
There are many more reasons why you should NEVER work at You and I, but I am getting tired.
I do want to add a disclaimer. I am not saying don't come to Korea. I really like Korea. I am not saying all Hogwans are bad. There are some good ones out there. I am just letting people know the truth so you can all make informed decisions about your place of employment.
Good Luck. |
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