Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Cthulhu]

N. Korea 'tests weapons on humans'

Apparently North Korea doesn't harbor the same moral qualms about doing a "Unit 731-style job of experimenting on prisoners" that the South does.

[sharhim]

The situation in NK is a nightmare. For one man, Kim Jong Il, millions are suffering unthinkable tortures and oppression. As we live in comfort, just a relatively few miles away is a nation under the control of a mad tyrant. I wish and pray that he will be removed from power asap, and that the NK people could have a chance for freedom of thought, word, happiness, religion, and all the rest, but most of all, just food and basic needs.

How the nations of the earth can continue to allow his rule is really beyond me. Why they don't take in the refugees and promote the collapse of his government, in the name of human decency, I can't understand. I'm especially shocked by many SK opinions I've heard: they don't want the refugees because it would hurt the SK economy! Wow. Those are their brothers and sisters under attack, and yet some of them are regarded as enemies. There's got to be more to life than prosperity. If my father were in a concentration camp, I don't think I'd consider the cost on getting him out, nor do I think I could be happy or ignore him.

[sadsac]

There are still many Koreans with family in North Korea and that is why they have these regular family reunification gatherings, but this is just a drop in the ocean. Yes, North Korea is a repressed nation but is reunification the answer? It may have been up until the time of the wall coming down. The East and West German reunification model might have frightened many sensible Koreans. Germany has an economy that could absorb the cost associated with fixing the mess that was east Germany, South Korea does not. We see news on a regular basis of the poverty, famine and depression that is common in North Korea. World governments condem the actions of Kim Jong Il, but North Korea is a sovereign nation and as such has a right to be treated as one. Time will determine what the future holds for North Korea and its' people.

[sharhim]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the main problems with the NK economy the fact that Kim Jong Il takes the majority of money, including donations, and feeds his military machine? I know it would take time, but isn't it possible that with an open market and investments and a return of earned money to the people, rather than the gov, that the economy could surely turn around? Think of the expansion of foreign investment potential with twice the amount of land and closer markets to China and Russia.

I read in a recent book from a NK defector that in his concentration camp, prisoners could be killed just for catching and eating something so desirable as a mouse. I know it's horrendous, but I blame that on the funneling of money to the top, not on the inability of the country to become productive.

[sharhim]

One more thought. I'm all for sovereignty. However, within western sovereign nations, individuals are not granted sovereignty over their own children to the extent that they may torture, neglect or kill them (except in abortion, unfortunately). If we interfere in the rights of individuals, for a few, why would we not interfere in the rights of a whole nation?

There must be some lines across which we do not allow 'rule of law' to advance. Surely basic human decency is one. Especially in this case. In NK, I don't think the "sovereign nation" logic applies because that implies that the government is run by the people, and that they have collectively chosen to operate in a certain way. When a nation is run by a cruel tyrant, his rights must be terminated when he violates the most basic of laws, a much higher law that is far above national legislation.

The famous writing, that we hold all men equal, endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights of liberty, etc. applies here. The law above all else comes from the Creator, who does not hold Kim Jong Il blameless due to his position, and I don't imagine that he holds us blameless for doing nothing if it is in our power to do something.

[ulsanchris]

I hate to make an excuse for kim jeong il, because he is a bastard, but it would be hard for him to not spend money on running his military. It would put a lot of men out of work, making the unemployment situation worse and also he would likely lose the support of the generals who would then oust him. Not something a dictator wants to have happen.

[Derrek]

South Korea and North Korea reunifying is a pipe dream.....

This country simply could not handle it, in my opinion. On a corporate level, you'd see Samsung and other companies scrambling to bribe, buy, and steal anything and everything to get a foothold on the land, people, and business of North Korea (we already see this today).

There would still be a wall, of sorts, between North and South.

The average South Korean is not going to easily give much of their precious family resources to help those in the North in any way. Sure, they'd possibly give a little at first somehow, but after the kissing and hugging is over, it's back to being Korean. Remember, we're talking about a country where an orphaned child is not readily adopted by their aunts and uncles. Do you really think South Korea would want to "help" the NK people? Heck, no. Not unless they're going to get something out of it... ie: Money, Sex, Cheap Labor.

You'd see a bunch of "pretty" women from the North marrying not-so-pretty guys from the South who could provide a lifestyle. You'd see a lot of angry, disgruntled NK men causing trouble because they are downtrodden and poor, and can't get a woman.

In short, after all the dust settles, the troubles would just be beginning.

Don't forget that the war between North and South was largely started because NK felt like SK was taking advantage of them.

No, they will expect the USA and the world to pay for everything, then tell them to "GET OUT".

[sharhim]

I don't disagree w/the comment about the possible SK response. But to me it's impossible to gauge the NK response. Any negative impression they have ever given has been under compulsion of the tyrant. They are not free to do anything beyond government approved responses.

A student who went to China and met a NK girl there remarked on how NK must not be bad because she only said positive things about it, like it's the greatest country on earth. Ok, I was naive in college, but that just takes the cake. Those people have NO freedom, their every word is monitored for the occassion when they may be pounced on for political treason and imprisoned or killed (along w/3 generations of their family).

That's similar to a SK who said, "Hey, Saddam won 100% re-election. They must really be in favor of him there." Whew-where to begin?

Anyway, I just think we should not at all judge the NK people based on their dictator.

[Son Deureo!]

IMHO the U.S. and China should share some of the economic burden of the reunification of Korea, should that day ever come.

Both countries played a major role in the division, so both countries should share some of the responsibility for the final outcome. So far as the U.S. side goes, this would probably be less expensive than maintaining a constant military presence and providing military aid to the South.

[steve_r]

[indiercj]

I fear the different language, economic status, physical differences, ideology, different concept of democracy between the two Koreas that would play havoc when reunification would come. The assimilation of thousands of refugees from the North living right now in SK could play a meaningfull gauge to estimate how reunification would go.

But all in all, I am more positive on this. Looking at how it has been going when South Korea being religiously devided of christians and buddists(about 50:50) without going through any major conflict(is there any similar cases in this world?) seems to me a firm proof. I think Koreans share too much in common that would dissolve any trivial differences that being religious or ideological.

[khyber]

while KJI obviously needs help setting up his expenses, one has to admit that there are two outside influences which have a very REALY effect on NKs economic situations.
1) A climate (COLD winters and dry springs, followed by monsoons) and topography that allow for Very little in the way of domestic production. (a measely 17000h compared to SKs 19000 and the USAs:1.7million)
2) HOW MANY trade embargos?
tooooo many.

FYI, in case you care:
STanding army: -+3million.
Citizenry: 22million -+
thats:14% of the pop. that has to be GUARUNTEED good food.

I've seen on the news that ONLY 100,000 people will be getting fed.
That is foooooooooked ooop!

[On the other hand]

Indiercj wrote:

[sharhim]

That's a good point to consider. We've heard how there is serious brainwashing in the schools and media against all things western, but especially the U.S. So another hurdle would be to de-program a lot of false indoctrination maybe before there could be real progress in integrating the NKs to SK.

[coolsage]

When I first came to SK (1997), it was illegal for citizens of this place to own a short-wave radio. I believe that this was just after the ban on owning a red car was lifted. The red car thing, I still don't get (a Korean woman who was shopping for a car at the time told me that a red car was 'rude'. As for the short-wave, which could pick up Radio Pyongyang, I believe that the powers-that-be here were reluctant to let that voice be heard, because many South Koreans are as susceptible to that pseudo-marxist rant as their less-educated brothers and sisters across the DMZ. This is not a sophisitcated, educated country. Yes, many people go on to a university education without a clue as to what's going on in the rest of the planet. As my departed father was fond of saying:"That's not education, that's schooling." The result is a dysfunctional and hypocritical society.Of course, there are splendid people to be found here, especially those who've lived elsewhere.