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Why fox news is crap and not to be trusted (my first thread!
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RufusW wrote:
Point out MSNBC intentionally distorting facts to support its viewpoint and we'll agree. Some organisations believe news is news.

Obama may spout propaganda for the media - Fox creates it!


When the topic of Fox News have come up, I've brought this up repeatedly. Yes, it's clear other news organizations have biases. That's not what makes Fox News despicable. Rather, it's the fact that Fox News systematically lies in order to support their bias. They make up outright lies, they distort truths into lies, and they even alter photographs to make people who they are trying to demonize less sympathetic.

No one who is trying to equate Fox News to other news networks ever responds to any of that, though. They just keep saying, "Other networks are just as bad," without providing anything in the way of evidence.

RufusW wrote:
Also, Fox is the mainstream - it's the most watched network!


This is also true. Fox loves to proclaim itself the most watched network on the air, but at the same time has successfully made itself out to be somehow "outside the mainstream." Brilliantly done from the perspective of appealing to right-wing lunatics, but also demonstrative as to how poor the critical thinking skills of said right-wing lunatics are.

Most news sources are biased; that's to be expected. That bias manifesting itself by the news network giving preference to certain stories and viewpoints over others is to be expected. Deliberate lies and distortions, on the other hand, are above and beyond what's reasonable or tolerable. Fox News is indefensible, which is why no one here is actually even trying to defend it. Rather, in tried and true conservative fashion, they simply try to muddy the intellectual waters of the debate, insisting that other networks are just as bad without actually providing anything to meaningfully back it up, as if just saying it could make it true. Repeat it often enough, and casual participants can't help but wonder, "If it's been said so many times, might it not be true?" And this is the exact methodology conservatives have used for so long to fight off the variety of reforms our society needs.
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economicmayhem



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Location: Yong In

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Fox Creates the News Reply with quote

I have mixed feelings about Fox News.

On the one hand, I hate Fox news' lies and misleading statements.
On the other hand, I like the arguments they have during their news opinion entertainment sections.

What is really going on is this....The news opinion entertainment says something, then the "news" part of Fox that people don't know about reports what the other hand of Fox says as news, which to some odd degree is true in a strange way. More explaination....Glen Beck, a news opinion entertainment program, complains about Obama. A few hours later, the New desk reports "conservatives complain about Obama" which is what Beck said. Get it?
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Sergio Stefanuto



Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RufusW wrote:

Democracy is fundamentally socialist


I'm British, but I find you absolutely embarrassing.

Democracy = socialist is an a posteriori claim about democracy that is neither true nor false, since democracy is fundamentally subjective. One might equally argue that democracy is fundamentally capitalist and the same would apply. Democracy a priori is "government by the people". Whatever system - whatever it may be - that emerges is democracy, hence it is subjective (the Norwegians vote for a different, though still democratic, system than the Koreans, for example. Oh, and Norway is more capitalist than Korea, btw).

Still, if we ever want advice on rounding up and shooting our capitalists, or collectivizing our farms, I'm sure you're the right man to come to. Mr. Green
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sergio Stefanuto wrote:
Oh, and Norway is more capitalist than Korea, btw).


Interesting that if you look at the "change from previous" numbers, they were "previously" identical.

That said, this doesn't look very scientific.
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Sergio Stefanuto



Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Fox"]
Sergio Stefanuto wrote:


That said, this doesn't look very scientific.


The methodology seems reasonable enough to me.

But still, if leftists radically alter the definition of socialism sufficiently, Norway's bound to come out socialist eventually.
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't recall anyone being this worked up when Dan Rather, CBS news, and the Killian documents.

How about Reuters doctoring photos for their news stories?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287774,00.html


I guess everyone is a pot calling the kettle black.
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davesucksnfl



Joined: 11 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a difference. Rather's was a limited and he essentially ended his career over it. It was also far less deliberate than the clip in that fox video. You're right in that there are other instances, but fox is unique in that it's part of their methodology rather than some isolated incident.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
I don't recall anyone being this worked up when Dan Rather, CBS news, and the Killian documents.

How about Reuters doctoring photos for their news stories?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287774,00.html


I guess everyone is a pot calling the kettle black.


Occasional isolated incidents occur in other news networks. Fox makes a deliberate habit of it. That's the difference. You're taking a boy who has occasionally stolen candy from his siblings and likened him to a delinquent who empties his mother's purse every week. They may do the same thing in some sense of the word, but not to same degree, either quantiatively or qualitatively.
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RufusW



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sergio Stefanuto wrote:
RufusW wrote:

Democracy is fundamentally socialist


I'm British, but I find you absolutely embarrassing.

Democracy = socialist is an a posteriori claim about democracy that is neither true nor false, since democracy is fundamentally subjective.

What the hell are you talking about? Democracy is objective - that is its core principle. The society decides what's best for them.... i.e. it's social, socialist.

In a demorcracy the majority of society rules... minus civil liberties. When society rules it's fundamentally socialist, or socialism... the majority want it and vote for it.

Who do you think supported progressive income tax?
The rich? Ha!
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RufusW



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sergio Stefanuto wrote:
Still, if we ever want advice on rounding up and shooting our capitalists, or collectivizing our farms, I'm sure you're the right man to come to. :mrgreen:

You're confusing economics with politics.
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Koveras



Joined: 09 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're both right. Democracy is fundamentally democratic, which means it almost certainly will become socialistic: the poor, lazy and stupid have most of the votes.

Quote:
Who do you think supported progressive income tax?
The rich? Ha!


It's a more interesting question that you make it out to be. Look into the Poor Law of 1601, and Speenhamland. Both operated on a progressive scale, iirc, and were instituted by the English upper class.
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget about taking talking points from the Bush White House.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us not lose our perspective here.

Paid Lying: What Passes for Major Media Journalism

Posted: 2009/11/09
From: Mathaba


Today's major media journalism is biased, irresponsible, sensationalist reporting that distorts, exaggerates or misstates the truth... masquerading as fact to boost circulation, readership, viewers, or listeners, and on vital issues suppresses uncomfortable truths to provide unqualified support for state and/or corporate interests.
Major media sources produce what Project Censored calls "junk food news." In Manufacturing Consent, Herman and Chomsky explained the "propaganda model" that controls the public message by "filter(ing)" disturbing truths, "leaving (behind) only the cleansed residue fit to print" or air.

The New York Times - Its Lead Role in Distorting and Suppressing Truth

The Paper of Record has a long history of:

-- supporting the powerful;

-- backing corporate interests;

-- endorsing imperial wars;

-- supporting CIA efforts to topple elected governments, assassinate independent leaders, prop up friendly dictators, secretly fund and train paramilitary death squads, practice sophisticated forms of torture, and menace democratic freedoms at home and abroad. For decades, in fact, some Times' foreign correspondents were covert Agency assets. Others today likely are as well as other prominent fourth estate members.

National Public Radio (NPR) and Public Broadcasting (PBS)

NPR promised to be an alternative to commercial broadcasters by "promot(ing) personal growth rather than corporate gain (and) speak with many voices, many dialects."

Having long ago abandoned its promise, and given its substantial corporate and government funding, NPR is indistinguishable from the rest of the corporate media.

FAIR analyzed PBS's flagship NewsHour guest list and drew similar conclusions. Like NPR, it's ideologically right and usually censors progressive content and public interest programming. FAIR compared its content to ABC's Nightline and found that it presented "an even narrower segment of the political spectrum." It then conducted an analysis of all of its programs, got similar results, and determined that NewHour is even more ideologically right than NPR.

The Wall Street Journal (WSJ)

In October 2007, FAIR bemoaned the Murdoch takeover because of his "penchant for using his holdings for his personal (views) and business interests." Earlier FAIR and the Columbia Journalism Review criticized its editorial page for inaccuracy, extreme bias, and dishonesty.

The BBC's Long Tradition As An Imperial Tool

From inception in 1925, it's been reliably pro-government and pro-business, or as its founder Lord Reith wrote the establishment:
Quote:
They know they can trust us not to be really impartial.


Fox News Channel (FNC)

CJR said several former Fox employees
Quote:
complained of 'management sticking their fingers' in the writing and editing stories to cook the facts to make a story more palatable to right-of-center tastes.


As for accuracy and being "fair and balanced," FAIR (in summer 2001) called FNC
Quote:
The Most Biased Name in News.


full article at link
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asylum seeker



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Why fox news is crap and not to be trusted (my first thr Reply with quote

davesucksnfl wrote:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-november-10-2009/sean-hannity-uses-glenn-beck-s-protest-footage

how anyone can take that network seriously is beyond me.


Does anyone not know this already? I don't think there are many educated people who actually take Fox News seriously.
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guava



Joined: 02 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From BBC

BREADLINE BRITAIN:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/business/2005/breadline_britain/default.stm

Focus on poverty in the UK after 60 years of the welfare state

Children in rags
Hard times
The century long battle to measure Britain's underclass

WELFARE STATE: THEN AND NOW
The 1945 'welfare state election'

Quiz: The welfare state

LIFE ON THE BREADLINE
First-time buyers at poverty risk
Young will be poorer than parents
Voices from the poverty frontline
UK poverty explained

A MODEL WELFARE STATE?
Britain's road to the welfare state
Is UK still a model for others?

Child poverty 'echoes' through life
A for sale sign First-time buyers on poverty 'knife-edge'

Breadline Britain
Take a journey through a century of dealing with poverty

How the way that poverty is measured has changed dramatically over the past century
What living in poverty has meant during the past 100 years

Poor person Poverty in the UK
Who are Britain's 21st century poor?

I'm professional, single and poor
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