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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| redhed wrote: |
| I like to keep up my lead reserves in times like this. I can swap it for food and gold both. |
If the world ever really falls apart, ammunition and seeds will probably be among the most valuable things to own. Even gold loses its value in the absence of any form of civilization. Still a lot better than Fed paper though. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/12/news/economy/us_gold/index.htm?cnn=yes |
From that article:
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| Furthermore, a sale of all the country's gold wouldn't make much of an impact. With the nation's annual deficit at $1.7 trillion, a $787 billion stimulus package and a $700 billion bank bailout, $300 billion is kind of puny in comparison. |
Going by those figures alone, we have $3.2 trillion in liabilities, and only $300 billion in gold to back it up.
It doesn't look good for the $. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/12/news/economy/us_gold/index.htm?cnn=yes |
Here's the problem: the Federal Reserve is not the US government. The Fed is owned by private banks, and all the gold they hold is privately owned as well. Fort Knox hasn't been audited since the 50's, so we have no idea of knowing if there's any gold there at all.
What we do know is that the US government is heavily indebted to the Fed. All those bonds they issued have to be paid back somehow if they default, and since they're basically admitting that most their gold is inside places like the vault of the NY Fed, it's not hard to guess that there probably isn't any gold in Fort Knox...
Anyway, I can't prove the gold isn't there, anymore than that article can prove it is. Fort Knox is off limits, and the Fed's books are closed too - so we literally have no idea of knowing whether or not they've stolen all our gold or not. The Fed can just keep its lips sealed until the day the dollar collapses, and then just announce its defaulting all our gold over to itself as compensation (for the trillions of fiat dollars the Fed created out of nothing).
This is the outrageous situation our country is in.
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"Curiously, Treasury still values its gold at $42.22 per ounce. Congress reached that figure in 1973, two years after the the post-World War II Bretton Woods gold standard, which had valued gold at $35 an ounce, was scrapped.
With gold selling at prices 26 times that amount, why doesn't the Treasury, and by extension, the Fed, realize those gains on their balance sheets by displaying the market value of their holdings? Or, with the gold standard abandoned, why doesn't the government sell off its reserves to put that money into the economy or pay off debt?
There are lots of reasons, ranging from the psychological to the practical.
"If we started selling gold from our official reserves, it would be recognized as a sign of weakness for the dollar," said Jeffrey Nichols, managing director of American Precious Metals Advisors and senior economic advisor to Rosland Capital. "America's relatively large gold holdings provide some psychological benefit to our currency."" |
The scam is just so obvious... |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Some believe that governments are selling gold to keep the price of gold down and the value of fiat currency more or less stable. If they didn't sell gold, the price of gold would reach, some say, $10,000 an ounce. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
| Some believe that governments are selling gold to keep the price of gold down and the value of fiat currency more or less stable. If they didn't sell gold, the price of gold would reach, some say, $10,000 an ounce. |
The IMF is selling gold as a matter of fact to try to drive prices down - but the gold is now just getting snatched up immediately (as happened the other day when they put 200 metric tons on the market and it was immediately all bought up by the Indian central bank in the largest purchase of gold since the 40's). It's not much of a secret that the dollar is no longer trusted around the world; it's simply left unspoken to avoid a panic if everyone tries to dump it at once (since so many keep it as a reserve currency). But they'd all much rather have gold reserves than dollar reserves for obvious reasons.
Most investors aren't stupid, and know the US government is most likely lying about having any gold left. Gold is going to keep going up and up and the dollars days are numbered. |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| I'm so glad that i invested heavily in gold way back in 2005. Best thing I ever did, and I'm still buying now. The only way is up. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| $1132 |
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economicmayhem
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Location: Yong In
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm estimating my gold at Shinhan bank has increased about 450,000won in the last few months. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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That 99 trillion mentioned earlier is INCLUDING the Social Security and Medicare funds which are set up as a trust fund that the government borrows money against. Yes, it's on the books as debt, but it's not debt the same way the national debt is, so the 99 trillion mark is total crap.
The debt to GDP ratio of the US is better than 6 of the 14 Eurozone countries (1,2,3,6,7,8 in terms of size), the Chinese and Indian economies might be growing but they are still tiny in both nominal and per capita terms.
There is NO real threat to the United States dollar as THE dominant currency for world trade. If you think people are going to start carrying bricks of gold around, you're nuts. Yes, the economy of the world sucks. But people still go to work, they still eat, they still live. The world is not coming to an end, moonies. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| economicmayhem wrote: |
| I'm estimating my gold at Shinhan bank has increased about 450,000won in the last few months. |
I was thinking about starting an account like this next week. Could you tell me a bit about it? Are there minimum deposits? What are the transaction fees for buying and selling? How do withdrawls work? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| There is NO real threat to the United States dollar as THE dominant currency for world trade. |
This is completely untrue. The transition will happen in one of two ways:
1) sudden stop at a random time (less likely)
2) an organized move away from BW2 after a period of global macro stability (more likely).
As the Chinese bankers said "we hate you guys". It's true. They're waiting for the right time to make a change.
Gold will probably hit 1200 tomorrow or Wed. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| That 99 trillion mentioned earlier is INCLUDING the Social Security and Medicare funds which are set up as a trust fund that the government borrows money against. Yes, it's on the books as debt, but it's not debt the same way the national debt is, so the 99 trillion mark is total crap. |
Huh? Debt is debt. Period. Therefore, the 99 trillion mark is not total crap...
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| The debt to GDP ratio of the US is better than 6 of the 14 Eurozone countries (1,2,3,6,7,8 in terms of size), the Chinese and Indian economies might be growing but they are still tiny in both nominal and per capita terms. |
Saying our debt to GDP ratio is better than "6 of 14" Eurozone countries, isn't saying much at all. We are essentially a bankrupt nation (the only difference is we still carry a big stick).
The size of China's and India's (and others') economies is not what matters. What matters is the negative balance of trade we have with them. The fact that we no longer produce anything (all we export these days are promises), that we spend far too much on things like wars, and that our real economy is nosediving - makes for a serious problem for our currency. It's debased and everybody knows it.
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| There is NO real threat to the United States dollar as THE dominant currency for world trade. If you think people are going to start carrying bricks of gold around, you're nuts. Yes, the economy of the world sucks. But people still go to work, they still eat, they still live. The world is not coming to an end, moonies. |
Wishful thinking. The dollar's days are severely numbered. There is no solution.
As for your comment about people still going to work every day, eating and living - well they're going to be doing less and less of that as the economy worsens. If the dollar collapses, a lot of people are going to be ruined, and even die. Doesn't mean the "end of the world", it just means really bad times are coming. This isn't alarmist, such things have happened countless times in history. Just think about how people felt when the Great Depression came along, followed by WWII. We are not immune to collapse. |
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