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20 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall

 
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: 20 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall Reply with quote

Is this getting any play in the Korean media?
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

North or South?
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hogwonguy1979



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazing how time slips away i remember being in grad school studying poli sci at the time talk about having all the theories you were taught being tossed out the window

what makes me feel even older is that this month marks 30 years since Pink Floyd's The Wall came out
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daniel-andersson



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Location: Seoul (but from Sweden)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a big article on the front page about it yesterday. Today the newspapers are all about the last domino-brick which is still standing.
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itaewonguy



Joined: 25 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard half the population of germany want the wall back up!
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English Matt



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

itaewonguy wrote:
I heard half the population of germany want the wall back up!


I don't know where you heard that, but I can guarantee it's 100% BS. Whilst many East Germans are unsatisfied with the post reunification situation, that is by far much less than half the population of Germany. And nobody in Berlin would ever say that they would want the wall to be put back up.....they'd look at you as if you were crazy if you voiced such an idea.
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a link right off-hand but I do remember a poll done a few years back that showed 25% of West Germans felt that reunification was a mistake. Mainly due to the negative impact it had on the German economy.
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's even more amazing about the fall of the Berlin Wall is that David Hasslehoff was performing that night.
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daniel-andersson



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Location: Seoul (but from Sweden)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The prices did raise in the east when they opened the border, so some people had problem to go around in the beginning. That they were able to import some fruits again or travel wassnt that important. You will probably see the same when the Korean wall falls, many Koreans will be unsatisfied because they would have to work even more than they do today.

I heard they had made a wall in Seoul as well. Did anyone see it?
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itaewonguy



Joined: 25 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

English Matt wrote:
itaewonguy wrote:
I heard half the population of germany want the wall back up!


I don't know where you heard that, but I can guarantee it's 100% BS. Whilst many East Germans are unsatisfied with the post reunification situation, that is by far much less than half the population of Germany. And nobody in Berlin would ever say that they would want the wall to be put back up.....they'd look at you as if you were crazy if you voiced such an idea.


maybe not 50% but there was a poll taken and the numbers were surprisely high..

sure putting the wall up again is wrong for obvious reasons..
but you take a poll in places like Italy, spain and france and ask them if they want the EURO abolished..you will be surprised how many will vote to end it..
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English Matt



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

itaewonguy wrote:
English Matt wrote:
itaewonguy wrote:
I heard half the population of germany want the wall back up!


I don't know where you heard that, but I can guarantee it's 100% BS. Whilst many East Germans are unsatisfied with the post reunification situation, that is by far much less than half the population of Germany. And nobody in Berlin would ever say that they would want the wall to be put back up.....they'd look at you as if you were crazy if you voiced such an idea.


maybe not 50% but there was a poll taken and the numbers were surprisely high..

sure putting the wall up again is wrong for obvious reasons..
but you take a poll in places like Italy, spain and france and ask them if they want the EURO abolished..you will be surprised how many will vote to end it..


That's because there are a lot of uneducated plebs in society.
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youtuber



Joined: 13 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad we can't all be as educated as you Rolling Eyes

Obviously being a part of the EU has some downsides for any country.

It's not that people are uneducated. It's that they have different priorities than you.

Wouldn't an educated person understand that?
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English Matt



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youtuber wrote:
Too bad we can't all be as educated as you Rolling Eyes

Obviously being a part of the EU has some downsides for any country.

It's not that people are uneducated. It's that they have different priorities than you.

Wouldn't an educated person understand that?


If you have a degree and can speak more than one language the advantages of being an EU citizen are manifold. If you do not then it is more difficult to avail yourself of these advantages and opportunities. The EU was first established to ensure no future conflict in Europe.....so far it has succeeded. The EU is an incredibly stable entity, one which provides opportunities unimaginable for previous generations.

Some people are ignorant of the opportunities and the benefits the existence of the EU has brought....those without a higher education and / or the ability to speak other languages are more inclined to fit this bill.

The truth is that we are now no longer restricted to our own labour markets and we have freedom of movement and residence within the EU......the EU has given people more choices and freedom, greater stability, peace and security. Once disputed borders are now settled, minority languages are supported and brought back from the brink, there is greater protection of the natural environment, human rights have been codified and citizens are protected against the caprices of individual national governments.

Additionally, it's not exactly sensationary to say there are a lot of plebs in any society. When I lived in Canada there were a lot of plebs there as well......
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steveinincheon



Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: in The Shadows of Gyeyangsan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are always segments of the population though that will benefit less from change than others, and it is understandable that these groups will feel nostalgic for the old order. For a 50-something unemployed former East German factory worker, the security and stability of having a job, a home, and food will outweigh the new benefits that globalization or the Wende and has brought.

Also there is a difference between Germans who are not fully satisfied with reunification and those who would actually want to see the Wall go back up. THe first group largely feels that political and economic reunification were rushed and poorly planned and as a result the social and economic consequences were too high. Only a small fringe group however would actually like a throwback to the old days, and of these more would be found in the East than West. The exact percentage that you get in any survey asking this question will depend upon how exactly the question was framed in German.

Very few Europeans would like to go back to the divides of the Cold War, but that doesn't mean that there isn't large scale dissatisifaction with the status quo.
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