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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| PGHB ... what is your obsession with residency status? |
Oh dear...
It is not an obsession Picasso. It is a FACT that Residency and Sponsored worker are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things in every country you will visit.
Thats not taking sides...thats not defending anything...its justa fact that many seem to be completely unable or unwillign to grasp.
You severely confuse the issue with your sexual harrassement example. That has nothing to do with what I am discussing. I am discussing legal status in a country between residents and foreign workers and how that relates to legal rights and benefits. Sexual harrassement knows no difference between race and status. In that register neither does rape, assault, fraud, theft...by what do any of these have to do with legal status in a country?
Who here said they do not support the right of migrant workers?
Again you are confusing what I am saying.
I am not against the rights of migrant workers..heck I was one for years and stood up for my rights.
I can however recognize (by the way I am in no way a conservative in political or social terms) that in any given country a CITIZEN OR RESIDENT has different rights and obligations than a FOREIGN WORKER. Thats again is NOT racism....it is legal status. How friggin hard is that understand???
Foreign workers and citizens are treated differently in legal terms....that again is not racism it is a normal procedure. A Foreign worker is in a country temporarily. He does not vote for example. His taxation status is different as is his access to certain services.
You move to France and do you think you get the same status as a Foreign worker than a French citizen? You would not and that would not be racism either. It is legal status, nothing more.
Also what does my wife have to do with this discussion? I have no need for your comments on my marriage or for the 'congratulations' you offered. I am discussing legal status. Once someone understands that concept they can gain an accurate perspective on their status and differenciate between things better.
So..let me ask you picasso since you raised these points
How does Korea prevent you from living a normal life? |
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travelingfool
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Location: Parents' basement
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| travelingfool wrote: |
| A Korean doctor also bought a local country club and is trying to kick out all of the non Korean members. |
You wouldn't happen to have a link to this story, would you? |
No, but it's called Old Ranch Country Club in Seal Beach California. I know quite a few members. The same is happening at a place called Los Coyotes Country Club in Buena Park, California. The consensus among my friends is basically, "What the hell did we ever do to these people for them to be such a-holes? Don't we have 30,000 troops over there?"
The Koreans at the aforementioned clubs want NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with anyone other than Koreans. They are rude on the course, take their sweet time when hitting shots, and generally don't give a damn about anyone or anything around them as they are the center of the universe. The last I heard the members at one of the clubs revolted and were planning on buying the K-doc out and sending him and his busloads of Koreans from K-town away forever. Sorry you PC turkeys, I am just telling you what I have witnessed on countless occasions.
Whatever, thems the facts. |
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travelingfool
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Location: Parents' basement
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| travelingfool wrote: |
Finally, when talking about racism in the US, why does everyone only bring up white hate groups? How about Mecha, La Raza, Brown Berets, Black Panthers, etc? Oh yeah, I forgot, only white male Americans can be racist! |
WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAH!
How many of, these groups do you actually know about? (Don't worry, I'll wait for you to do a quick Wikipedia or Google search). |
Kabrams, you sure do seem to have a chip on your shoulder about race, especially about whites. Let me tell you something. Here in LA, most Mexicans hate blacks. You should have heard a Mexican guy I work with talk about Obama. I have never heard the N word more times in my life. I speak fluent Spanish. Yes, OMG, a white male who actually knows a second language! If you, Mr/Mrs Kabrams, as a black person, walked through certain neighborhoods in LA, you would likely be shot or at best severely beaten. Why? Because you are black. Now, if you walked through my primarily white neighborhood, nobody would say a word and certainly never act on their thoughts. It's called being civilized. My area is quite peaceful. Why is Compton not safe? I don't see many evil whites there. Hummmm.
I think it's time you took off your myopic racial glasses and see that people are idiots no matter what their color. Trust me, I hate plenty of whites. The people who have hurt me and screwed me over the worst are white. The people who are raping and pillaging the US are white. The US congress is as corrupt as they come and is filled with, you guessed it, white people.
Finally Kabrams, I do a lot of volunteer work and work with people of all backgrounds. Our ideals are what unite us, not skin color. Maybe that might be a better way of classifying people. Then again, as a evil, privileged, self entitled white male, I probably just wouldn't understand, right? |
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Xerapis
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Xerapis wrote: |
Read the post again. You even quoted it.
It clearly states "Korean nationals". Apples and apples, in that case. |
Korean nationals in the US as in foreign students or foreign workers on a work or student visa are under more restrictions than American citizens...just like foreign workers in Korea are under more restrictions that Korean citizens...that is NORMAL.
~snip~
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Man, I was just pointing out the fact that the poster said "Korean nationals" and you responded like they said "Koreans". Using "nationals" makes it clear that they are NOT permanent residents.
But in answer to your unnecessary lecture, let me just say as an E-2 for almost 3 years now, there has been NO improvement in my status. I've addressed that issue directly with the cellphone people and the bank people. Length of contract, regular bill payment, no complaints, none of that matters. All they look at is the visa.
Earlier this year I considered switching from LG Telecom to SK. After almost 3 years of loyal LG service, SK still demands that I pay the "foreigner deposit" of 200,000 won if I want to use their service. That's not credit discrimination, man.
Shinhan Bank informed me that I can't get the debit card that provides a Starbucks free size upgrade because it's "not for foreigners". I can't even get an ATM card with a different design on the front - "not for foreigners". When I first tried to get a Visa Checkcard, I was told "It is not available for foreigners". I demanded to know why, the teller finally made a phone call, and waddayaknow?!?! It IS available for foreigners. I don't know how much of it is ignorance and laziness, or how much is discrimination, but it comes down to the same end result.
So, how long do I have to build up my credit here? When will this change, since you're the expert? How many more years of being treated like I'm fresh out of high school with zero credit? |
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travelingfool
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Location: Parents' basement
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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It's funny how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between an ATM/Debit card and a credit card. When getting a debit card issued by a bank, credit underwriting standards don't apply because it's your god damn money in the first place!!!!!! What is so hard to understand about that? I walked into Shi*On bank and was told that foreigners are criminals and cannot be trusted with a debit card. Again Einsteins, it's OUR DAMN MONEY TO BEGIN WITH! How is that not discrimination? It's like the Korea defenders try to polish a big, fat turd but it is still a turd and stinks badly. You can spin this any way you want but a KOREAN NATIONAL doing whatever in the US would not be subjected to this kind of treatment.
If a teller at my bank told a KOREAN NATIONAL the same thing there would be lawsuits from the ACLU, the Korea Defense Fund, and god knows how many hyphenated ethno-centric interest groups. I had zero recourse in Korea. Some of my Korean students were enraged at this, but in the end nobody would ever dare stand up on behalf a dirty foreigner.
Finally, to all of you folks out there that love to say how us whites are finally getting a taste of our medicine and will go home and treat immigrants better.........well, I have always treated them extremely well in the first place. After Korea, I am still inclined to be nice to everyone, except Koreans. Is that racist? Maybe. But I will damned if I ever get ripped off by a Korean again. I would never go into business with Korean, marry one, hire, or trust one to even deliver my newspaper. Almost without fail, any business dealings I have had or working for Koreans has been a total nightmare. Just not worth it. Many clients at work feel the same way about Korea: avoid like the plague if at all possible. Declining foreign investment and frustration at dealing with a bunch of temperamental, hyper sensitive, hyper nationalistic 2 year olds is just not worth it.
I don't expect to be treated like royalty. All I am asking is that some of the same courtesies extended to KOREAN NATIONALS (not immigrants) in my own country be extended to my fellow countrymen in Korea. Don't give me this apples and oranges crap. That is only making excuses, just like saying how Korea is only one generation away from the farm so we just need to 'understand' the quirkiness, rudeness, and hate. You let them off too easy. There is zero excuse for inviting someone to teach in your country then treating them like complete dog crap. Be warned guys!
P.S., someone will chime in with, "Well, why didn't you just go to another bank?". Well, my school gave me no choice. It was open an account there or not get paid. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| travelingfool wrote: |
It's funny how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between an ATM/Debit card and a credit card.
There is zero excuse for inviting someone to teach in your country then treating them like complete dog crap. Be warned guys!
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It's even funnier how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between government/Immigration and some lazy idiot tellers at a bank. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| travelingfool wrote: |
It's funny how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between an ATM/Debit card and a credit card.
There is zero excuse for inviting someone to teach in your country then treating them like complete dog crap. Be warned guys!
. |
It's even funnier how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between government/Immigration and some lazy idiot tellers at a bank. |
It's even EVEN funnier when one can't distinguish an isolated incident from a systematic pattern of behavior targeting a certain group. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| travelingfool wrote: |
It's funny how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between an ATM/Debit card and a credit card.
There is zero excuse for inviting someone to teach in your country then treating them like complete dog crap. Be warned guys!
. |
It's even funnier how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between government/Immigration and some lazy idiot tellers at a bank. |
It's even EVEN funnier when one can't distinguish an isolated incident from a systematic pattern of behavior targeting a certain group. |
If by a nation and immigrants, well then indict the whole lot of em, every nation on earth.
Dude you're a temporary resident alien. Get used to the fact that you are not going to be treated equally, nor should you be.
I for one think its okay that they have greater restrictions on credit when it comes to foreigners. This prohibits people from going from country to country, maxing out credit cards and then taking off for the next place.
Let's go with the reverse of this- Let's do away with drug tests, CBCs, HIV tests, Credit restrictions, and all that jazz. What would be the likely outcome of such courses of action? Do you think that every FT that comes over here is some alturist? Do you think if the Korean Credit Card company is generous enough to give some non-resident a credit card that they deserve to be left holding the bag of $5,000 debt?
It's not the worst thing in the world to not be someone's absolute equal in everything. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| travelingfool wrote: |
It's funny how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between an ATM/Debit card and a credit card.
There is zero excuse for inviting someone to teach in your country then treating them like complete dog crap. Be warned guys!
. |
It's even funnier how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between government/Immigration and some lazy idiot tellers at a bank. |
It's even EVEN funnier when one can't distinguish an isolated incident from a systematic pattern of behavior targeting a certain group. |
And it's the most fun when someone can't distinguish someone else talking about an isolated incident and NOT about a "systematic pattern of behavior."
Also it's highly amusing that this can be called a "systematic pattern of behavior" since there are quite a number of people who have few if any problems. Doesn't seem systematic at all...quite haphazard and irregularly applied from what I can see. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| travelingfool wrote: |
It's funny how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between an ATM/Debit card and a credit card.
There is zero excuse for inviting someone to teach in your country then treating them like complete dog crap. Be warned guys!
. |
It's even funnier how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between government/Immigration and some lazy idiot tellers at a bank. |
It's even EVEN funnier when one can't distinguish an isolated incident from a systematic pattern of behavior targeting a certain group. |
And it's the most fun when someone can't distinguish someone else talking about an isolated incident and NOT about a "systematic pattern of behavior."
Also it's highly amusing that this can be called a "systematic pattern of behavior" since there are quite a number of people who have few if any problems. Doesn't seem systematic at all...quite haphazard and irregularly applied from what I can see. |
What you don't seem to understand is that the "lazy teller" incident falls on the side of a foreigner actually getting a credit card -- not the other way around. And the government is responsible for restricting businesses to prevent them from having discriminatory practices.
I have been here for a year. I have nearly 10 million in the bank. I have never let a single bill go unpaid. I had a Korean co-teacher with me to vouch for my character and assure the tellers that I had just that week re-signed my contract to be in the country for another year. We went to no less than ten different banks and not a single one would give me a credit card. It wasn't the tellers' fault -- they did their best, each placing a number of phone calls to people in higher and higher positions of power.
By the way, the word they used to explain why I couldn't have a credit card was "foreigner" -- not temporary migrant worker.
So anyway, I still have to ask my co-teacher to help me book a flight every time I want to go on vacation. That's not a belittling experience at all.
If only I could just marry a Korean like PGHB. Then I wouldn't deserve to have to go through all of this. He earned his position in Korean society, fair and square. It's just too bad his wife has to deal with all of that racism in Canada that he hasn't actually ever described, which is apparently completely different from and far worse than me getting sexually harassed for simply walking down the street. Koreans aren't nearly as racist as Canadians, after all. |
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Samurai Blur
Joined: 20 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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OP, this Korean born, American educated (well educated at that) seems to think that America is the LEAST racist country in the world and seems to have a pretty good sociological argument as to why Koreans are more racist than Americans.
It's long, but very informative.
Can't We All Just Get Along?
http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2007/03/cant-we-all-just-get-along.html
America: The Least Racist Country in the World!
http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2008/01/america-least-racist-country-in-world.html
| Quote: |
| This is, of course, not to say America is a racism-free country. Quite the opposite is true. But those who are quick to decry that America is more racist than other countries by focusing on racist incidents in America, are simply clueless. In fact, America is one of the few countries in the world where such incidents would even be recognized as racist. The first step to cure alcoholism is to recognize that you have an alcohol problem. Even if you slip and have a few drinks, you are still ahead of those who don�t even realize they have a problem. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| travelingfool wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
| travelingfool wrote: |
Finally, when talking about racism in the US, why does everyone only bring up white hate groups? How about Mecha, La Raza, Brown Berets, Black Panthers, etc? Oh yeah, I forgot, only white male Americans can be racist! |
WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAH!
How many of, these groups do you actually know about? (Don't worry, I'll wait for you to do a quick Wikipedia or Google search). |
Kabrams, you sure do seem to have a chip on your shoulder about race, especially about whites. |
I've been told that. And I honestly don't care.
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Let me tell you something. Here in LA, most Mexicans hate blacks. |
Hooo boy. A white guy telling me about what Mexicans think? This should be good.
*grabs popcorn and settles in*
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| You should have heard a Mexican guy I work with talk about Obama. I have never heard the N word more times in my life. |
The "N-word" or n!gger?
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| I speak fluent Spanish. Yes, OMG, a white male who actually knows a second language! |
Congrats on joining the rest of us, YT. Just kidding, but seriously, what's your point? That I'm somehow amazed that a white guy speaks Spanish? It's actually not that rare, seeing as white Mexicans do exist, lol.
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| If you, Mr/Mrs Kabrams, as a black person, walked through certain neighborhoods in LA, you would likely be shot or at best severely beaten. |
The same could be said for some places in white Appalachia. And yet I don't go around saying "WHITE PEOPLE HATE BLACK PEOPLE."
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| Why? Because you are black. |
Okay.
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| Now, if you walked through my primarily white neighborhood, nobody would say a word and certainly never act on their thoughts. It's called being civilized. |
Hahaha, I knew this was going to get good! So you're basically saying that based on a few bad neighborhoods in LA, all Mexicans hate blacks and are therefore uncivilized.
Yikes.
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| My area is quite peaceful. Why is Compton not safe? I don't see many evil whites there. Hummmm. |
Ever heard of a Sundown Town? Hummmm...
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| I think it's time you took off your myopic racial glasses and see that people are idiots no matter what their color. |
Whatev. I'll keep calling white people on their crap (along with any other group). It just so happens that I see more BS from white people than other groups because that's who I'm around right now.
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| Trust me, I hate plenty of whites. |
LOL!
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| The people who have hurt me and screwed me over the worst are white. The people who are raping and pillaging the US are white. The US congress is as corrupt as they come and is filled with, you guessed it, white people. |
You said it, not me. 
| Quote: |
| Finally Kabrams, I do a lot of volunteer work and work with people of all backgrounds. Our ideals are what unite us, not skin color. Maybe that might be a better way of classifying people. Then again, as a evil, privileged, self entitled white male, I probably just wouldn't understand, right? |
Who said you were evil? That's the thing with some of you guys--you hear "privileged" and automatically think I'm calling you "evil". Self-entitled? Yeah, probably. Privileged? Certainly. But evil?
Come on, now.
As a side note, I have Latinos (Mexicans, PRs) in my family, and went to school in Mexico. I also speak Spanish and have several Mexican friends. My black brother lived in LA for many years and many of my family are located in Oxnard, which is majority Latino.
I have Mexican and Mexican American friends from San Diego, Tijuana, DF, Puebla, Cuernavaca, Oaxaca and Veracruz.
So please...please don't pretend you know what all Mexicans think about black people.
Last edited by kabrams on Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think the one thing that distinguishes Korea from the US is that the US doesn't base immigration law on popular fears and assumptions that are spread in the Korean media. Nor do US legislators invite open racists to encourage policy changes on Capitol Hill.
Also, the US has Affirmative Action/ Equal Opportunity laws where an employer can't discriminate against a person because of their age, race or preference. Also there is Civil Rights legislation that prohibits major acts of public discrimination from happening.
These days, a person could easily file a defamation lawsuit in the US against almost any perceived form of discrimination. If a person tries to do that in Korea, they get laughed at and lectured on Korean sovereignty and how foreigners shouldn't interfere in Korean affairs.
Finally, the US media doesn't encourage racial discrimination as much as Korean media (though it does happen from time to time- but not to the extent as seen in Korea), especially with those news expos�s that continually paint foreigners as drug abusing thieves. If such things were to appear in the US newsmedia, the ACLU would have a field day. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| travelingfool wrote: |
It's funny how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between an ATM/Debit card and a credit card.
There is zero excuse for inviting someone to teach in your country then treating them like complete dog crap. Be warned guys!
. |
It's even funnier how many supposed college graduates don't know the difference between government/Immigration and some lazy idiot tellers at a bank. |
It's even EVEN funnier when one can't distinguish an isolated incident from a systematic pattern of behavior targeting a certain group. |
And it's the most fun when someone can't distinguish someone else talking about an isolated incident and NOT about a "systematic pattern of behavior."
Also it's highly amusing that this can be called a "systematic pattern of behavior" since there are quite a number of people who have few if any problems. Doesn't seem systematic at all...quite haphazard and irregularly applied from what I can see. |
What you don't seem to understand is that the "lazy teller" incident falls on the side of a foreigner actually getting a credit card -- not the other way around. And the government is responsible for restricting businesses to prevent them from having discriminatory practices.
What you don't seem to understand was that I was not supporting the bank practises. travelingfool wrote "There is zero excuse for inviting someone to teach in your country then treating them like complete dog crap."
First of all I highly doubt he was given a invitation...he was ALLOWED to teach not invited. Secondly it was the Education Ministry who invited him not the banks. And lastly it was the bank tellers who apparently treated him badly, not the Ed. Ministry.
I have been here for a year. I have nearly 10 million in the bank. I have never let a single bill go unpaid. I had a Korean co-teacher with me to vouch for my character and assure the tellers that I had just that week re-signed my contract to be in the country for another year. We went to no less than ten different banks and not a single one would give me a credit card. It wasn't the tellers' fault -- they did their best, each placing a number of phone calls to people in higher and higher positions of power.
By the way, the word they used to explain why I couldn't have a credit card was "foreigner" -- not temporary migrant worker.
Yes, we all know that explaining complex ideas in a language you don't speak is dead easy and one knows all the correct terms to be used.
So anyway, I still have to ask my co-teacher to help me book a flight every time I want to go on vacation. That's not a belittling experience at all.
Ever wonder how those people who don't have helpful co-teachers still manage to book their flights?
If only I could just marry a Korean like PGHB. Then I wouldn't deserve to have to go through all of this. He earned his position in Korean society, fair and square. It's just too bad his wife has to deal with all of that racism in Canada that he hasn't actually ever described, which is apparently completely different from and far worse than me getting sexually harassed for simply walking down the street. Koreans aren't nearly as racist as Canadians, after all. |
This last paragraph was completely uncalled for and crosses the line.
Have a nice day now...or at least try. |
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Xerapis
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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ALLOWED to teach? Are you serious?
Maybe this is some bizarre use of the word..I've never heard of people being ALLOWED to work. You interview, you're evaluated, you're OFFERED A JOB BY THAT COMPANY.
Yes, a job offer is an invitation. They offer, you accept or reject.
Saying that we are ALLOWED to teach is insulting. You drew a distinction between an invitation and permission that is offensive and demeaning. Now feel free to play some kind of dictionary semantics. Here, you can choose from the list below.
ALLOW:
1. to give permission to or for; permit: to allow a student to be absent; No swimming allowed.
2. to let have; give as one's share; grant as one's right: to allow a person $100 for expenses.
3. to permit by neglect, oversight, or the like: to allow a door to remain open.
4. to admit; acknowledge; concede: to allow a claim.
5. to take into consideration, as by adding or subtracting; set apart: to allow an hour for changing trains. |
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