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Korean Government Encouraging More Children
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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:30 pm Post subject:

justagirl wrote:

A question, since Korea "needs" more workers. If the birthrate is declining so much, why can't people find jobs? Like tsgarp said, 30 applications for 3 jobs, etc. From what I hear from my college students and other Korean friends, it's very difficult to find a good job.

The contraction in birth rates didn't hit mission critical until about 15 years ago and since then has contracted even more. The declining birthrate isn't a problem now, but rather it's going to be a problem in the future.

The people entering the workforce today haven't benefitted from a contraction in population to make finding a job easier because the there are still more people entering the workforce than leaving. This won't turn around for about 10 years.

Quote:

Why not call all Koreans home that live overseas? There's got to be millions of them out there? Since there's "plenty of room" in Korea and the population is decreasing, maybe they can fix the problem and save Korea.

Not everyone wants to return back. If my friends and I couldn't find a job in Canada, is the solution to back up our bags and return to Europe?

dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject:

Gord wrote:

justagirl wrote:

Quote:

Not everyone wants to return back. If my friends and I couldn't find a job in Canada, is the solution to back up our bags and return to Europe?

Are you a 1.5 generation Canadian, Gord?

Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject:

dogbert wrote:

Are you a 1.5 generation Canadian, Gord?

No. But neither are many Korean families, many of whom immigrated to the U.S. more than a hundred years ago.

http://usembassy.state.gov/seoul/wwwh418v.html

dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject:

Gord wrote:

dogbert wrote:

Are you a 1.5 generation Canadian, Gord?

No. But neither are many Korean families, many of whom immigrated to the U.S. more than a hundred years ago.

http://usembassy.state.gov/seoul/wwwh418v.html

Gord, I'm aware that Korean immigration has a one-hundred-year history in the United States. However, AFAIK the bulk of today's Koreans in the U.S. emigrated in the 1980s or are children of these later immigrants.

I'm surprised that you passed up an opportunity to raise the issue of the United States historic severe restrictions on Asian immigration, which lasted until oh, say, 1964.

Gord, sparring with you just gets better and better:

"Immigration to the United States before 1965

By 1888, a small number of Korean students, political exiles, ginseng merchants and migration laborers began to arrive on American shores, but the total number of Koreans in the United States before the 20th century was estimated at fewer than fifty. The first major wave of immigrants reached Hawaii during 1903-5. This phase of immigration brought a total of 7,226 Koreans as contract laborers for sugar plantations.

The second wave of Koreans arrived between the Korean War of 1950-53 and 1965, as war orphans or wives and relatives of American servicemen who had been stationed in Korea. By 1980, about 50,000 Korean women who had married Americans were living in the United States."

History of Korean Immigration to the United States

"1965 to Today

The 1965 Immigration Act became the background for another mass wave of Korean immigrants as it abolished discriminatory immigration quotas based on national origin. From 1976 to 1990, an annual average of 30,000-35,000 Koreans immigrated to the United States. In the 1970s and 1980s, Koreans were the third largest immigrant group, following Mexicans and Filipinos."

Ibid.

And don't forget to tip your taxi driver 10,000 won next time you go to the airport. Razz

Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject:

dogbert wrote:

I never suggested what the proportion was, or how many moved when. I simply noted that Korean families have been moving to the U.S. now for more than a hundred years. The idea was put forth of calling "all Koreans home that live overseas" was a pretty silly idea, especially when "Koreans" is replaced with "Britains".

Quote:

I'm surprised that you passed up an opportunity to raise the issue of the United States historic severe restrictions on Asian immigration, which lasted until oh, say, 1964.

Gord, sparring with you just gets better and better:

Sparring means we have a difference of opinions. I do believe that in this instance we share a common belief and are instead simply discussing the implications of our shared belief.

Quote:

And don't forget to tip your taxi driver 10,000 won next time you go to the airport. Razz

I take the shuttle bus. Cheaper, goes pretty much direct, and there is one every twenty minutes. But if I did take a taxi, no more crossing the street for me to get an Incheon taxi, I'm just walking to the street and grabbing a Bucheon taxi.

HardyandTiny

Joined: 03 Jun 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:44 pm Post subject:

Gwangjuboy wrote:

HardyandTiny wrote:

okay gord let me make it simple for You. And try to drop the insecurity concerning your intelligence. It's annoying.

I offer a solution that brings foreingers into Korea with the OPPORTUNITY to eventually become citizens. I provide them a decent wage and a decent quality of life. They work in Korea for 5-7 years and then apply for citizenship..etc..

You offer a solution that ASKS the current 20-somethings generation in Korea to have more children. How are you going to get these young people to have more children? HOW!?

I don't disagree with your references to foreigners working in Korea, but such policies shouldn't overshadow the need for Koreans to produce more children.

I agree, there should be a balance between the two ideas.
Allowing more foreigners into the country should be easier than creating an increase in the birth rate, but for some odd reason Korea seems to think foreigners are a threat. I don't understand that aspect of this country and I'm not sure if I want to.
Also, I don't think free kindergarten and a tax break will increase the number of children born. Increased wealth will create less children. The solution lies in the population's distribution. Basically, there are too many people depending on Seoul. if you can somehow move 10% of Seoul's population to other areas in Korea then the birth rate will increase.

darrin312

Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Location: Kyopoville

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:58 pm Post subject:

this is just a proof of concept attempt. forget you ever saw it Last edited by darrin312 on Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject:

HardyandTiny wrote:

Basically, there are too many people depending on Seoul. if you can somehow move 10% of Seoul's population to other areas in Korea then the birth rate will increase.

I don't believe this theory is sound given that Seoul's population has dropped 7% in the last ten years, but the birth rate has contracted by a quarter since then.

HardyandTiny

Joined: 03 Jun 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject:

Gord wrote:

HardyandTiny wrote:

all talk, no action
Organized crime is making a killing in Korea lending out money because the Korean government comes up with these ridiculous unrealistic ideas.
More children...this is the idea of a complete idiot.

After I go out and explain the reasoning behind it and why it's being done in a few countries (and not just Korea), you still do nothing but send insults to everyone who disagrees with you?

You never suggested to me how you are going to get people to have more children.
Of course if you need an increase in population and it would be nice if you could just get people to have more children, but it's extremely difficult and we don't have the time.
More than 50% of the South Korean population lives within the Seoul metropolis. You could give all of them a salary increase, free school and college and tax breaks and any other economic incentive you can think of and you still won't get an increase in the birth rate.
So what are you going to do?

tsgarp

Joined: 01 Dec 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:01 pm Post subject:

darrin312 wrote:

tsgarp wrote:

It's true that kids today don't want to do the 3D jobs but trust me, the Korean work ethic is still very much better than in Western countries.

LOL!!! Your a gyopo right? Gosh.. that is too funny!

I'm a redneck cracker from Virginny. What's it to you? When I was an assisstant manager in my mallrat days at a dept. store, we had an unwritten policy of hiring Koreans and Vietnamese as much as possible for stock and warehouse positions cuz unlike a lot of the Whites we hired they wouldn't moan and bitch and sneak off to smoke weed, and unlike a lot of the Blacks we hired they would show up on time and not get drunk on King Cobra malt liquor during lunch and sell weed to the Whites, and unlike a lot of the Hispanics we hired they would well...show up for work.
I find the kids here will do anything you put to them (and believe me I push off as much work onto my Korean underlings as I can) without complaint, and if something goes wrong they don't waste my time with excuses, they just get on it until it's right.

simulated stereo

Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: municipal flat block 18-A Linear North

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject:

I miss weed, King Cobra, and working for idiot managers.

shevek

Joined: 29 Jul 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:18 pm Post subject:

HardyandTiny wrote:

Allow immigrants to enter legally, diversify the population and slowly fill the lower paying positions, and of course eventually those new immigrants begin to move up the social ladder. You can't rely on typical Koreans to pop out three kids. It will never happen, it's just too expensive. Free kindergarten? What is that a joke? Free kindergarten woo-hoo!

People in San Diego have issues with Mexican immigrants? Screw those people. Why don't they apply for the jobs that the Mexicans are taking?
Why can't Mexicans enter the USA and take jobs? The work is there, right?. Hell, what culture? The name of the place is SAN DIEGO.

Hey, I think that's a good idea as well. I don't much care for our crazy border and the new additions of huge fences to keep out all the terrorists, supposedly (but I think it's just as much to keep out Mexicans looking for work).

I just meant to say that it's unlikely that many policy makers in any country will agree with you. Lots of people worry about what they perceive as a threat to their culture and their economy. Notice I said what they perceive. I personally don't think a good solution to immigrant integration problems is to cut off immigration and increase the birth rate of the preferred demographic. That seems like it could only help short term, if at all.

Also, I am aware of the fact that the name San Diego is of Spanish and Mexican origin. The name of our entire state is as well. That doesn't help a lot of people feel more neighborly.

shevek

Joined: 29 Jul 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:27 pm Post subject:

Gwangjuboy wrote:

This is true, but the assimilation of foreigners into the Korean economy, and culture might encourage these foreigners to keep their money in Korea. The lack of perminance does nothing to encourage foreigners to keep their money in Korea. A relaxation of immigration/visa rules might reverse this trend. Further, the assimilation of foreign workers in Korea is hampered by a lax enforcement of labour law, and unscrupulous bosses. Strengthening the rights of workers in Korea might provide more favourable conditions, which in turn, induce domestic investment.

I think this is a good suggestion. Since there are declining birthrates all over the world mostly in developed nations, and many developing nations have relatively large birth rates, immigration seems like a good solution for a global job imbalance. If the assimilation of foreigners, or the adaptation of the host country to the foreigners' culture, or both can be increased, a lot of trouble could be avoided.

And certainly what else you said about the lack of welcome for immigrants not being useful to assimilation is very true. What a nice post you made.

tsgarp

Joined: 01 Dec 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject:

HardyandTiny wrote:

ryleeys wrote:

HardyandTiny wrote:

You offer a solution that ASKS the current 20-somethings generation in Korea to have more children. How are you going to get these young people to have more children? HOW!?

Open a Victoria's Secret on every corner and make it mandatory for all the 20 something Korea women. Yup, that outta do it.

And this just in: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3492251.stm

Quote:

Singapore is launching two new TV programmes to promote sex, in an effort to tackle its declining birth rate.
The programmes' host, Dr Wei Siang Yu, also known as Doctor Love, says he wants to educate the public in the "love, sex and baby strategy".

One show will give sex therapy, and in the other couples will compete to conceive, Dr Wei told the BBC.

Singapore has one of the world's lowest birth rates, with only 1.24 children born to each woman in 2003.

Butterfly

Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Korean Government Encouraging More Children

justagirl wrote:

I heard that the government wants Korean couples to have 3 or more children. If you have 3 kids, you get tax breaks, the child gets to go to kindergarten at the gov.'s expense and a few other incentives as well.

Why? Because they are worried about the declining birth rate in Korea. Rolling Eyes

They really think it's a serious problem and that they should pop out more babies.

Does anyone else think this is insane? Anyone else think that it'd be nice to have a few less people in Korea, or is it truly only the foreigners that realize this?

Korea's density of population is it's greatest strength, I don't know why you are rolling your eyes at that. It has a great home market, and the beginnings of a pretty severe labor shortage. So many couples seem to be having just one kid. I think the average in Korea is 1.2 children per woman or something, not enough to prevent a shrinking population I think.

We're having a similar problem in Europe and it means we have to import so much labour, which causes all kinds of problems.

I have no idea why you are sneering at this encouragement to have children, most governments have done this at one time and I personally think we should have more of it in Europe.

Don't always assume its nationalism here, this is economics.

Last edited by Butterfly on Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:04 pm; edited 2 times in total

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