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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
| Well Caniff, the thing is America has two justice systems. |
Ferchrissakes, here comes another one.
But, hey, at least Chief Justice Kuros won't get lonely. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| And there's still torture at Bagram. |
This is what I don't get. I've been slowing rereading Dreams from my father.. The way he is acting doesn't square with the guy who wrote that book. He is an entirely different person. He's much less contemplative and MUCH less interesting. Either Dreams was a carefully crafted piece of political theater or being in the elite has corrupted him. He was an idealist. No idealist will permit torture at Bagram. I just don't understand. |
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thomas pars
Joined: 29 Jan 2009
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Onion newspaper Title. " Nation picks black man for worst job ever." |
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Old Gil

Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Location: Got out! olleh!
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
Hi Old Gil:
Did I say independence? Thought I said the Tibet issue/concerns. Read back and see.
My post is IMO. It's based on the love affair that the Hollywood elite have with President Obama and the hateathon they had going for W. |
Yes, really? Hollywood favors charisma over incompetence? |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: So, How's the Hope and Change Going for you So far? |
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| beck's wrote: |
| So what do you think about President Obama after little more than a year? |
Ummm... It's November 2009. He took office in January 2009. That makes it less than a year.
| beck's wrote: |
| Out of control deficits and a spiriling national debt. |
This started before he was in office. I don't think you can expect him to come in, wave a wand and for it to disappear.
| beck's wrote: |
| A currency crisis with a falling American dollar |
This actually benefits those of us who are earning money abroad.
| beck's wrote: |
| President Obama bowing and scraping to every tin-pot emperor in the name of cultural sensitivity |
This is ridiculous. He made gestures of respect to foreign leaders. Yes, he bowed. Get over it and start thinking about things like policy rather than something as minor as a bow.
| beck's wrote: |
| Civil trials for the masterminds of 9/11 in New York |
America is a country with laws. Even though the acts committed by these people were terrible, they still deserve things like trials. They will most likely be found guilty and punished for these crimes. What do you want? A lynch mob? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Washington is apparently broken just up to the point that it still gives the illusion of being a functioning entity. It's currently a complete travesty.
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I often agree with caniff, but we part company here. I think there are some specific things converging that are gumming up the works.
(This is not meant to be an exhaustive list.)
#1. Obama's governing style is peculiar. He is deliberately handing legislative power back to Congress, possibly in an attempt to achieve bipartisanship as well as to rebalance the power distribution between the branches. It isn't working very well so far. After more than a half-century of imperial presidents, they system is not reacting well. It might have worked better had we not been in the midst of a major crisis. I think people are in the mood for an aggressive president. Although had he come out shooting in January, the charges of Nazism, Fascism, Communism and dictatorship would have been deafening rather than just annoying. In my opinion, Obama made a mistake focusing on Lincoln rather than Jackson, who presented himself as the single nationally elected representative of the common person.
#2. The Republicans are unexpectedly good at playing the obstruction game. "Republicans are using the filibuster to stall action even on bills that most of them support. Remember: The rule is to keep Democrats from ever reaching the exit.
As of last Monday, the Senate majority had filed 58 cloture motions requiring 32 recorded votes. One of the more outrageous cases involved an extension in unemployment benefits, a no-brainer in light of the dismal economy. The bill ultimately cleared the Senate earlier this month by 98-0--yes, that is a zero.
The vote came only after the Republicans launched three filibusters against the bill and also tried to lard it with unrelated amendments, delaying passage by nearly a month. "
http://www.tnr.com/article/environment-energy/the-most-frustrating-body?page=0,1
Bipartisanship is a hollow goal if you spend weeks negotiating a deal, give in to what the minority wants and then have the entire minority vote against the bill that delivered all they wanted. Bargaining in good faith should not be a foreign concept.
#3. The media, old and new. I'm not sure anyone can govern with every detail of every committee reported everyday. What's worse, the extremists get 'equal time' with people with real proposals for solutions. How much of your paycheck would you be willing to bet that if you stopped 10 people at random and asked about Death Panels and the actual content of the health reform bill from the House (the only one that's been passed so far), that far more would know about the Death Panels?
#4. Money talks in politics, just like it has always done. Until that is addressed, little improvement can be expected. |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Seonsengnimble, let me take on your points one by one.
Your first point is valid, even if a bit picky. I was counting Obama's tenure in office from the time he was elected in November of 2008. That would make it a little more than a year--give or take a few days. Granted, I concede that he was in the oval office in January which would make it a little less than a year.
Obama didn't create the national debt. However, he is adding to it at an alarming rate (more so than any of his predecessors) and with his medicare proposals he will escalate it even more. Obama is spending money like a drunken sailor. Money that the American government doesn't have.
A falling American dollar is good for those working abroad. Your point is well taken. However, the duty of a president is not to use fiscal policy to benefit a small group of expats.
I am not going to get over Obama's bowing to emperors. It flies in the face of everything America stands for. All that, "We the people" stuff that you might have come across in universtity unless you spent your time studying third world/post colonial oppression, colonial oppression and feminist/transgender/gay and lesbian studies. Obama hates the principles on which America is based. His bowing is simply a symbol of this.
I agree, America IS a country of laws. Prisoners of war have traditionally, through time, from at least the civil war on, been tried by military tribunals in accordance with military law. KSM and et al were captured on the battle field. They are enemy combattants and should be tried as such. They should not be tried in the same court as Martha Stewart.
For example, the German enemy combattants at the close of WWII were tried at Nuremberg in a military tribunal. They were not tried on American soil in civilian court.
Mr. Seonsengnimble, If we are at war, then the rules of war apply. The fact that this is a war unlike others we've fought should not mean that it isn't a war at all. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:18 am Post subject: |
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So Beck's, I take it you don't remove your shoes inside or give money with two hands here?
also, has the USD noticeably depreciated since Obama took office, at an increased rate from the bush years?
not going the whole 9 on ending torture and indefinite detainment is probably the biggest obama disappointment. afghanistan second, iraq third.
also, the reason people weren't getting nuremburg style trials is that they weren't considered soldiers by the bush admin. |
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Old Gil

Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Location: Got out! olleh!
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| I don't remember a formal declaration of war, only an authorization of force. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
| Obama didn't create the national debt. However, he is adding to it at an alarming rate (more so than any of his predecessors) and with his medicare proposals he will escalate it even more. |
Hmmmm....
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About 33 percent of the swing stems from new legislation signed by Mr. Bush. That legislation, like his tax cuts and the Medicare prescription drug benefit, not only continue to cost the government but have also increased interest payments on the national debt.
Mr. Obama�s main contribution to the deficit is his extension of several Bush policies, like the Iraq war and tax cuts for households making less than $250,000. Such policies � together with the Wall Street bailout, which was signed by Mr. Bush and supported by Mr. Obama � account for 20 percent of the swing.
About 7 percent comes from the stimulus bill that Mr. Obama signed in February. And only 3 percent comes from Mr. Obama�s agenda on health care, education, energy and other areas.
If the analysis is extended further into the future, well beyond 2012, the Obama agenda accounts for only a slightly higher share of the projected deficits. |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Not everyone agrees with this NY Times article that you posted, Hater Depot. There are other opinions. The Wall Street Journal has another take on the issue. On economic issues I tend to favour the WSJ.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123776518094909023.html |
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
| Your first point is valid, even if a bit picky. I was counting Obama's tenure in office from the time he was elected in November of 2008. That would make it a little more than a year--give or take a few days. Granted, I concede that he was in the oval office in January which would make it a little less than a year. |
Your first point is reflective of all the rest.
You make no sense. |
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catman

Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
I am not going to get over Obama's bowing to emperors. |
Did you ever get over Bush holding hands with Saudi royalty?
Sorry, that people are making an issue out of this is pathetic. WWII is long over with. |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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So Sorry. Holding hands and taking ones shoes off at the door is not bowing.
Obama didn't even bow well in Japan. He didn't suck up correctly. He held the emperor of Japan's hand when he bowed. Even the emperor was embarrassed. I guess Obama was off his teleprompter. Then again, if he wants to get America into even more debt maybe he felt he had to bow. Either way he is dispicable.
For an American president to bow to a foreign emperor is totally against everything the USA stands for. WE THE PEOPLE. He is the first president to have done so. He is an America hating president. Sired by a Muslim Kenyan and mothered by a third world enthusiast. He is the first post-American president. He is a disgrace to his country. I supported the old guy who fought for his country and the hot American chick. I'm proud of it. You Betcha.
Please Captain Corea, tell me how I make no sense. Or are you just another worshiper of the Obamamessiah? Or are you just picky about the dates? |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Location: Middle Land
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
| Well Caniff, the thing is America has two justice systems. KSM was captured on the battle field. He is an enemy combatant and as such should be given a military trial. |
Fair enough, don't break the Geneva Convention on Human Rights dealing with POW's then. Let's start with holding children, work our way through the sexual abuse, and then discuss the torture.....for a start.
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| Instead Barak Hussein Obama will give him a NYC trial. NYC, the very epicentre of the media world. It will be a media circus with KSM's lawyers and KSM himself promoting his jihadist ideas to the world. |
Are you trying to remove the rights of the people of New York?
And as for using Obama's full name, what the motive behind that anyways? Never seen you use Clinton's or Bush's full names....
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| I think that B.H. Obama is just such an American hating president. |
Would this be slander, laible, or treason? And if you want to talk about an American hating president, I think Bush fit quite nicely. He ran America's reputation into the ground single-handedly! Even at home, his approval rating was worse than Nixon's! |
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