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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
I don't know where this stereotype of arrogant rude French people comes from. I have visited Paris twice and found most people there warm and friendly. Of course, I spoke French which might help. I think alot of Americans (and Brits) go there and shout at French people in English and then go back home with horror stories of how they were rudely ignored. I wouldn't say Koreans don't want to help, but I do approach some while speaking Korean and I would say at least half the time they refuse to even listen to me and just shout, "NO ENGLISHEE" or just ignore me all together. I think this has more to do with their face-saving culture, though.
That is all not to say that Korea and Seoul aren't great in their own ways. I'm just tired of the same old defenses. For myself, Korea was definitely good for a while but now I'm ready to move on in my life and fulfill deeper needs in myself. It was fun while it lasted, but not everyone wants what Korea has to offer and there's nothing wrong with that just like it's not wrong to not like France. |
Chances are you have the pronuciation wrong which is confusing them....once you get that down pat, it just becomes an endless parade "you speak korean very well".
Learning the language certainly makes things open up and much more interesting. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Unless you are of the mind that a nation makes a person, then I don't really see how you can make that argument. I am not my nation. I deserved no retaliation. I did nothing wrong.
You don't seem like the kind of person who would judge and classify an entire group of people based on a factor they cannot help, such as the place where they were born.... apparently you are, though. |
I'm not, by any means. One just needs to look at several countries around the world to see that there is some deep-rooted anti-Americanism out there. Rightly or wrongly, this blinds people's ideas of Americans. From what I see, a lot of the time people who hold anti-American views fail to distinguish between the disastrous foreign policies of the US (and I don't think anyone can argue against that. That is, that American foreign policy is an on-going disaster) and Americans as individuals. One just needs to look at Palestine, Iran, etc. to see that there are large swathes of people out there that not only hate the US but hate Americans as people for being born there. Incidents like the 'freedom' fry nonsense and, more recently, the campaign by certain factions in the States to boycott all Scottish goods, etc. doesn't exactly endear Americans as individuals and as a country to other nations. I don't agree with it, but evidently the kind of attitude you experienced is precisely because others in your country participate in that kind of 'freedom' fry nonsense.
Last edited by morrisonhotel on Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:03 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Ukon"]
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
Chances are you have the pronuciation wrong which is confusing them....once you get that down pat, it just becomes an endless parade "you speak korean very well".
Learning the language certainly makes things open up and much more interesting. |
Yes chances are you simply do not live in the palace of splendor and amazing Korean ability that is Ukon's made up dream world. |
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WavFunc
Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Old Gil"]
| Ukon wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
Chances are you have the pronuciation wrong which is confusing them....once you get that down pat, it just becomes an endless parade "you speak korean very well".
Learning the language certainly makes things open up and much more interesting. |
Yes chances are you simply do not live in the palace of splendor and amazing Korean ability that is Ukon's made up dream world. |
Speaking Korean poorly or with a Western accent to a stranger: you will be understood 10-30% of the time.
Speaking Korean well to a stranger while looking like a Westerner: you will be understood 30-60% of the time.
Speaking Korean well to a Korean you know: you will be understood 80-95% of the time. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| WavFunc wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Chances are you have the pronuciation wrong which is confusing them....once you get that down pat, it just becomes an endless parade "you speak korean very well".
Learning the language certainly makes things open up and much more interesting. |
Yes chances are you simply do not live in the palace of splendor and amazing Korean ability that is Ukon's made up dream world. |
Speaking Korean poorly or with a Western accent to a stranger: you will be understood 10-30% of the time.
Speaking Korean well to a stranger while looking like a Westerner: you will be understood 30-60% of the time.
Speaking Korean well to a Korean you know: you will be understood 80-95% of the time. |
Unless the Korean is a child and then they will magically understand every terribly pronounced word that comes out of your mouth the very first time. Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon? |
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WavFunc
Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
| WavFunc wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Chances are you have the pronuciation wrong which is confusing them....once you get that down pat, it just becomes an endless parade "you speak korean very well".
Learning the language certainly makes things open up and much more interesting. |
Yes chances are you simply do not live in the palace of splendor and amazing Korean ability that is Ukon's made up dream world. |
Speaking Korean poorly or with a Western accent to a stranger: you will be understood 10-30% of the time.
Speaking Korean well to a stranger while looking like a Westerner: you will be understood 30-60% of the time.
Speaking Korean well to a Korean you know: you will be understood 80-95% of the time. |
Unless the Korean is a child and then they will magically understand every terribly pronounced word that comes out of your mouth the very first time. Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon? |
I hope that was sarcasm.
All I know is that my Korean tutor painstakingly went over 한글 with me after I had already known it for awhile because she wanted my pronounciation to be good. She thinks its fine, now.
I'm a high-beginner/low-intermediate Korean Speaker and I'm med-high intermediate at reading/writing Korean.
Not often, but sometimes strangers don't know a word I'm saying. Even if my pronounciation is fine.
Simple stuff, too:
Me: 담배"보햄 No. 5" 주세요.
Lady: 애?!
Me: 담배"보햄 No. 5" 좀 주세요.
*Lady asks another customer*
Lady: 뭐야?!
Me: 그것... 담배를 있어요... *points over the counter*
*Lady starts fumbling and trying to figure out what I'm saying*
*Other customer figures it out and tells her*
Lady: 아! 담배!!! 아 아 아... *Hands me the wrong cigarettes*
Its very frustrating!
Last edited by WavFunc on Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the previous poster was reinforcing what you said. If the interlocutor has not been acculturated to thinking foreigners can't speak Korean they're much more likely to understand you. It rarely is a pronunciation problem on the speaker's part, especially if you've said the exact same thing before in a similar situation and you were understood. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| I think the previous poster was reinforcing what you said. If the interlocutor has not been acculturated to thinking foreigners can't speak Korean they're much more likely to understand you. It rarely is a pronunciation problem on the speaker's part, especially if you've said the exact same thing before in a similar situation and you were understood. |
Right. That's what I meant.
Kids understand me every single time I speak Korean, the first time, even though I have no idea how terrible my pronunciation might be. Same with my low level students, versus my high level students.
Maybe my pronunciation is wank. I accept that. But the fact that kids can catch my meaning and adults will often get flustered trying to figure out what Marlboro "레드.... 아니, 레드! 레드 레드 레드! Red! 이것!" means tells me it has something to do with the assumption that whatever I say, they're not going to be able to understand it.
In some cases, I think it may be "foreigners can't speak Korean so I know that isn't Korean even though it sounds like Korean." In other cases, I think it's simply, "Omo. Here comes a foreigner. They're going to speak English to me. I can't understand English. Oh my god. Here it comes. I won't understand. What do I do? What do I DO??"
By the time you come out with some simple thing in Korean, they've already decided that the situation is impossible. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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I have the opposite problems...
Adults understand, kids get confused or don't understand me sometimes.
My friend thinks koreans see white person "Englishee time"... I'm black and everyone seems to understand me fine unless I say it wrong. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
I have the opposite problems...
Adults understand, kids get confused or don't understand me sometimes.
My friend thinks koreans see white person "Englishee time"... I'm black and everyone seems to understand me fine unless I say it wrong. |
You're black, you speak Korean, you live in Seoul and you never get pushed. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Chances are you have the pronuciation wrong which is confusing them....once you get that down pat, it just becomes an endless parade "you speak korean very well".
Learning the language certainly makes things open up and much more interesting. |
Yes chances are you simply do not live in the palace of splendor and amazing Korean ability that is Ukon's made up dream world. |
Old Gil, your posts usually make me chuckle. Then I spotted your "location" and that just threw everything over the top..... |
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