|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| My coworkers didn't even know that other countries (besides the US) fought in the Korean War. "Busan Perimeter? 이것은 무엇이냐?" I guess it isn't their fault as history class is basically memorize and pick A, B, C, D and it's over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Xuanzang wrote: |
| My coworkers didn't even know that other countries (besides the US) fought in the Korean War. "Busan Perimeter? 이것은 무엇이냐?" I guess it isn't their fault as history class is basically memorize and pick A, B, C, D and it's over. |
Really? I remember during the World Cup, lots of Koreans cheering for the Turkish team and when I asked why, I was told the Turks had made huge sacrifices during the war. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hugekebab wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
The Korean powers-that-be seem seem to be willing to take any annoying step to up the quality of their foreign teachers, except the only ones that will really work......
......only give visas to certified teachers or those TEFL certified......make the NET's in Korea a professional class.
.......but, of course, that would mean paying us more, doing away with the employer as visa-holder, and giving better incentives. God forbid!! |
Exactly, they should stop moaning, make a CELTA or CertTESOL mandatory, pay us more and give us the right to change jobs freely. But they won't, because they are paranoid and xenophobic and above all, stingy and as tight as a ducks arse. |
I am very against this. Mostly because I've wittnessed the scam that certifications have become in the IT industry. IF Korea were to ever make CELTA or TESOL mandatory you can expect a 500% hile in The CELTA and TESOL fees. WHen I first got my job in Korea I didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. You might as well have expected me to go buy a brand new Ferrari because it would have been as probable as me being able to come up with the money to pay for a CELTA or an in house TESOL somewhere. Also in my opinion from my own personal experince the CELTA and TESOL aren't really worth it in what you get as compared to what you paid. I just think that it would throw an undue burden on many first timers who are facing coming here as I did to get on their feet and have some financial leeway, someting Korea definitely gave me. If I had the money to throw down on a CELTA before I came to Korea I wouldn't have needed to come in the first place. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| xingyiman wrote: |
| hugekebab wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
The Korean powers-that-be seem seem to be willing to take any annoying step to up the quality of their foreign teachers, except the only ones that will really work......
......only give visas to certified teachers or those TEFL certified......make the NET's in Korea a professional class.
.......but, of course, that would mean paying us more, doing away with the employer as visa-holder, and giving better incentives. God forbid!! |
Exactly, they should stop moaning, make a CELTA or CertTESOL mandatory, pay us more and give us the right to change jobs freely. But they won't, because they are paranoid and xenophobic and above all, stingy and as tight as a ducks arse. |
I am very against this. Mostly because I've wittnessed the scam that certifications have become in the IT industry. IF Korea were to ever make CELTA or TESOL mandatory you can expect a 500% hile in The CELTA and TESOL fees. WHen I first got my job in Korea I didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. You might as well have expected me to go buy a brand new Ferrari because it would have been as probable as me being able to come up with the money to pay for a CELTA or an in house TESOL somewhere. Also in my opinion from my own personal experince the CELTA and TESOL aren't really worth it in what you get as compared to what you paid. I just think that it would throw an undue burden on many first timers who are facing coming here as I did to get on their feet and have some financial leeway, someting Korea definitely gave me. If I had the money to throw down on a CELTA before I came to Korea I wouldn't have needed to come in the first place. |
How many MA- or CELTA-holders do you know that would want to come here and be a native speaker assistant teacher, coteaching witih people who have no idea what to do with them? I wouldn't want to go to grad school so I could press play on a CD-ROM, or deal with people too "biji" to come to class, or too stubborn to come to the weekly workshop. There's no sense making extra requirements when there's no plan in place for using NSETs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i think this would be a good idea - as long as they don't make it painfully long and it's only for newcomers to korea. i think a few hours on a saturday or sunday within the first 3 months here would probably help a lot of people not only adjust a bit better, but also make some friends.
the content is also important though; they have to make it as unbiased as possible and also not insert western culture stereotype comparisons in order to be taken seriously. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nosmallplans
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: noksapyeong
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cerberus wrote: |
| neo-confucian |
I didn't read anything you posted but I wanted to commend you on your accuracy. Koreans don't practice Confucianism, they practice Neo-Confucianism and to confuse the two is a major screw up that only makes the people who mess it up look stupid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BreakfastInBed
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Location: Gyeonggi do
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Smee wrote: |
| The biggest reason, I feel, for so many misunderstandings is because there's no planning in place for NSETs, no support for them, no idea what to do with them, no clear goals, and no way of defining success. |
Absolutely. This is the A#1 problem with the whole show over here. Another taekwondo demonstration, although enjoyable, isn't going to help.
Language lessons would certainly be useful, as would actual teaching demonstrations that reflect reality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Goalie
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Location: Chungcheongnamdo
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nomad-ish wrote: |
i think this would be a good idea - as long as they don't make it painfully long and it's only for newcomers to korea. i think a few hours on a saturday or sunday within the first 3 months here would probably help a lot of people not only adjust a bit better, but also make some friends.
|
Okay, but let's make it on a schoolday... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dude Ranch
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nosmallplans wrote: |
| Cerberus wrote: |
| neo-confucian |
I didn't read anything you posted but I wanted to commend you on your accuracy. Koreans don't practice Confucianism, they practice Neo-Confucianism and to confuse the two is a major screw up that only makes the people who mess it up look stupid. |
can you please explain further? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Smee wrote: |
| xingyiman wrote: |
| hugekebab wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
The Korean powers-that-be seem seem to be willing to take any annoying step to up the quality of their foreign teachers, except the only ones that will really work......
......only give visas to certified teachers or those TEFL certified......make the NET's in Korea a professional class.
.......but, of course, that would mean paying us more, doing away with the employer as visa-holder, and giving better incentives. God forbid!! |
Exactly, they should stop moaning, make a CELTA or CertTESOL mandatory, pay us more and give us the right to change jobs freely. But they won't, because they are paranoid and xenophobic and above all, stingy and as tight as a ducks arse. |
I am very against this. Mostly because I've wittnessed the scam that certifications have become in the IT industry. IF Korea were to ever make CELTA or TESOL mandatory you can expect a 500% hile in The CELTA and TESOL fees. WHen I first got my job in Korea I didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. You might as well have expected me to go buy a brand new Ferrari because it would have been as probable as me being able to come up with the money to pay for a CELTA or an in house TESOL somewhere. Also in my opinion from my own personal experince the CELTA and TESOL aren't really worth it in what you get as compared to what you paid. I just think that it would throw an undue burden on many first timers who are facing coming here as I did to get on their feet and have some financial leeway, someting Korea definitely gave me. If I had the money to throw down on a CELTA before I came to Korea I wouldn't have needed to come in the first place. |
How many MA- or CELTA-holders do you know that would want to come here and be a native speaker assistant teacher, coteaching witih people who have no idea what to do with them? I wouldn't want to go to grad school so I could press play on a CD-ROM, or deal with people too "biji" to come to class, or too stubborn to come to the weekly workshop. There's no sense making extra requirements when there's no plan in place for using NSETs. |
Well, the idea of hiring people trained in TESL is that the NET would be able to set up an effective teaching program wherever they work. As a professional, the administration of each institution would be obliged to let them get on with it.
You don't call out a computer engineer then tell him how to fix your computers.
It would mean quite a big shift in how the ESL industry works here in Korea.....but I don't see how else Koreans could achieve their two current aims of achieving a higher level of English proficiency and raising the quality of their NET's. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cerberus wrote:
nosmallplans wrote:
| Quote: |
| I didn't read anything you posted but I wanted to commend you on your accuracy. Koreans don't practice Confucianism, they practice Neo-Confucianism and to confuse the two is a major screw up that only makes the people who mess it up look stupid. |
Dude Ranch wrote:
| Quote: |
| can you please explain further? |
I would also be interested in knowing what neo-Confucianism is? I am going to take a stab at it and say it's whatever rule a Korean want's to follow when it suits his/her needs at any particular time. The rules are based on true Confucianism and then warped when appropiate!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ms.catbc
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: Ilsan
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think that this is a great idea.
When i was completing my bachelor of education we had to take policy issues classes to understand why there were particular laws regarding education (and language as I was studying in Quebec). We had to complete Canadian history courses as well. If I want to teach in another province I will have to either take a course or pass a test regarding the policy issues of that said province and their curriculum.
It can only make you a better teacher. I think those that may complain about this are those who are not really taking their job seriously. You are in a country on the other side of the world who's culture is so very different from your own. Understanding more about the culture can only make your experience more positive and help you reach out to your students more.
It's not indoctination. Let's face it, people who come to teach in Korea have it pretty easy. You don't even have to have a teachers license or go through any really vigorous interview. The fact that the government is doint this means that they are finally realising there is a problem in the system. finally! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think Neo Confucianism is something the yangban came up with right after the fall of Goryeo and start of Joseon as a new interpretation of Confucius' teachings, to legitimize the new dynasty and to de-emphasize Buddhism. I'm not sure what specifically was changed though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ms.catbc wrote: |
I think that this is a great idea.
When i was completing my bachelor of education we had to take policy issues classes to understand why there were particular laws regarding education (and language as I was studying in Quebec). We had to complete Canadian history courses as well. If I want to teach in another province I will have to either take a course or pass a test regarding the policy issues of that said province and their curriculum.
It can only make you a better teacher. I think those that may complain about this are those who are not really taking their job seriously. You are in a country on the other side of the world who's culture is so very different from your own. Understanding more about the culture can only make your experience more positive and help you reach out to your students more.
I've worked in Korea for NINE years. I have Korean friends I've known for nearly that long. I learned enough Korean to get around and hold a simple conversation. I think I know enough about the culture. Certainly more then I'm going to learn in a few days.
It's not indoctination. Let's face it, people who come to teach in Korea have it pretty easy. You don't even have to have a teachers license or go through any really vigorous interview. The fact that the government is doint this means that they are finally realising there is a problem in the system. finally! |
Pretty easy? We have to submit a CBC, drug tests, transcripts, a copy of our degree, reference letters...not just ONCE but EVERY time we apply for a new job. And the CBC has to be from the home country even if we didn't go back there. And the reference letters (at least for GEPIK) have be the originals. Since GEPIK doesn't GIVE THE ORIGINALS BACK how is that possible? Are we supposed to keep going back and getting new reference letters each and every time for years on end? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nosmallplans
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: noksapyeong
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joe666 wrote: |
Cerberus wrote:
nosmallplans wrote:
| Quote: |
| I didn't read anything you posted but I wanted to commend you on your accuracy. Koreans don't practice Confucianism, they practice Neo-Confucianism and to confuse the two is a major screw up that only makes the people who mess it up look stupid. |
Dude Ranch wrote:
| Quote: |
| can you please explain further? |
I would also be interested in knowing what neo-Confucianism is? I am going to take a stab at it and say it's whatever rule a Korean want's to follow when it suits his/her needs at any particular time. The rules are based on true Confucianism and then warped when appropiate!! |
Let's toss in some links to begin with:
Korean Confucianism
Neo-Confucianism
Confucianism
As you might assume, Neo-Confucianism is a more recent variation of Confucianism and is where, I believe, most modern negative feelings towards Confucianism derive from. I'll be completely honest, I'm no expert in these issues but I've read the original texts and I can say with certainty that the complaints leveled against Confucianism have no grounds when compared to these texts.
However, when you begin to research Korean and Neo-Confucianism you can begin to see where Confucianism was adapted from a religion/philosophy dedicated to improving the upper-class' leadership skills to a religion/philosophy dedicated to improving the upper-class' stranglehold over the lower-classes. Traditional Confucianism is all about how to better yourself to be a better servant to the people where Neo-Confucianism is a lot more focused on blanket rules that generally anchor down the population.
I really think everyone should go out and pick up a copy of the Analects of Confucious and give it a thorough read, I can say that it has really changed the way I see myself and my place in society and I think it has made me a happier and more productive member of society. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
