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whome?
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: |
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I have a degree in public policy management. This is bad public policy. The person who posted the idea of progressive language requirements for visa renewal is even more delusional.
I've been here for a few years and I will use the analogy of classes vs immersion for language learning. Koreans take class after class of english language lessons. But they learn a lot more, a lot quicker, and come back way more advanced after being immersed in an english language environment by going to Australia, Canada, philippines, Uk or the US. Same for ESL teachers. We learn all we need to know from experience. We may not get all the cultural niceties that they want us to, but we understand how things work; no course required.
If this was a free elective thing, then I'd have no problem with it.
This is a culturalist lawmaker seeking to make a splash and nothing more.
Of note, I once had middle class after class of middle schoolers who had difficulty finding Korea on a map of the world. I'm pretty sure that's something most teachers can do... |
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Burndog
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| zipper wrote: |
| Burndog wrote: |
| So...that's my opinion. I'm not always right (rarely would be closer to the mark) and don't claim to be. I'm sorry I got a bug up my arse about it all, but the last thread was really interesting, but constant stereotyping (mostly about Dokdo actually) and 'jokes' made the mods shut it down....so I got annoyed when I thought that this one might go the same way. As it stands...it appears that the thread has been ruined more by me than by you!! |
So I guess what you are saying is that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and that I must be politically correct at all times; lest we offend overly sensitive people?
Obviously my experiences are different than yours. And I still stand by what I said about Dokdo and the thing about Korean Men�s jealousy is just me being facetious. Well I certainly hope that other readers don�t take it personally as you. It was just my lame attempt to throw in a sense of humor. No offense to anyone.
In fact, I like Korea and Koreans very much; that is why I am still here despite my remarks. And yes, I dig Korean women, too.
Do I support cross cultural education for new teachers? You bet! There is nothing wrong with this idea if it materializes. It certainly can�t hurt its target audience. |
Cool.
I agree with sarcasm as a form of comedy...but it needs to be good. I hate that we live in an age where if you don't find someone funny they accuse you of being wrong! I'm Australian mate, so I'm not Politically Correct!! I accidentally offend my sensitive North American chums every time I open my mouth (we say the c word a LOT in Australia, but apparently it's a no go over there). I do think that the mods can lean towards being overly PC though.
I agree with everything else that you wrote. I was a bit self righteous and arsey at times, so I would like to apologise for that. A bad couple of days maybe.
As for trying to make people learn a wee bit about Korea...sure. We do that in Australia. I reckon if it's done well, it will be a fine thing. |
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ACT III
Joined: 14 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps this 'cultural' program, the increased visa standards, or any other hoop that is placed on foreigners are rooted in a singlular problem that has yet to be addressed.
By and large English education in Korea is ineffectitive.
I can't remember where I read it, but Korea spends the most money on english education in the world and yet the results have been wholly lackluster.
This pisses Koreans off. When you spend that kind of money on something you want results, and they're not getting it. And yet in other countries who have similar standards on teachers are having much better results.
So how could this be?
And thus we get into the types of thinking that creates these kinds of programs...
(One possible belief is that Koreans, and their culture is too different/unique compared to other countries and the foreigners korea is getting are backwater druggies/child molesters. Maybe, if we teach them the culture...) |
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zipper
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Location: Ruben Carter was falsely accused
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Burndog wrote: |
Cool.
I agree with sarcasm as a form of comedy...but it needs to be good. I hate that we live in an age where if you don't find someone funny they accuse you of being wrong! I'm Australian mate, so I'm not Politically Correct!! I accidentally offend my sensitive North American chums every time I open my mouth (we say the c word a LOT in Australia, but apparently it's a no go over there). I do think that the mods can lean towards being overly PC though.
I agree with everything else that you wrote. I was a bit self righteous and arsey at times, so I would like to apologise for that. A bad couple of days maybe.
As for trying to make people learn a wee bit about Korea...sure. We do that in Australia. I reckon if it's done well, it will be a fine thing. |
Cheers!  |
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zipper
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Location: Ruben Carter was falsely accused
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ACT III wrote: |
Perhaps this 'cultural' program, the increased visa standards, or any other hoop that is placed on foreigners are rooted in a singlular problem that has yet to be addressed.
By and large English education in Korea is ineffectitive.
I can't remember where I read it, but Korea spends the most money on english education in the world and yet the results have been wholly lackluster.
This pisses Koreans off. When you spend that kind of money on something you want results, and they're not getting it. And yet in other countries who have similar standards on teachers are having much better results.
So how could this be?
And thus we get into the types of thinking that creates these kinds of programs...
(One possible belief is that Koreans, and their culture is too different/unique compared to other countries and the foreigners korea is getting are backwater druggies/child molesters. Maybe, if we teach them the culture...) |
I wonder if there are cultural barriers that make it difficult for native teachers with TESOL degrees, TEFL or CELTA certificates and experience from properly implementing communicative functional approaches in Korean schools. I know that it is often challenging for experienced foreign teachers to teach in public schools, because there are differences in teaching priorities and styles between native and Korean teachers. |
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whome?
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ACT III wrote: |
Perhaps this 'cultural' program, the increased visa standards, or any other hoop that is placed on foreigners are rooted in a singlular problem that has yet to be addressed.
By and large English education in Korea is ineffectitive.
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I honestly don't think this is the case with this move, but you raise a very valid point. Between number of hours spent in the classroom as well as percentage of income spent on education, Koreans are tops or near the top in both. English education plays a role in both totals being high, and the tests scores are about average. And if you put more time in and more money in than anyone else, you should get better results. They don't.
But if they were serious about improving teaching standards/quality of teachers, they would simply require A) people with teaching degrees, B) people with TESL or TEFL 120 hour certificates and X years experience, or some other criteria that applies to teaching rather than social dynamics.
The focus on drug and STD testing, and now this, illustrates that this is not about education policy, but about social constructs. |
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Bubbabait
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| whome? wrote: |
| The focus on drug and STD testing, and now this, illustrates that this is not about education policy, but about social constructs. |
Which 'social constructs' could be a result of long experience with drug using, sexually overacting foreign teachers, usually wearing a backpack, sporting a beard and a bad attitude.
To paraphrase the Brits in another context, 'Foreign teachers are overpaid, oversexed, and over here.' |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| zipper wrote: |
Remember that beautiful Dokdo belongs to Korea; the father land!
You must always bow to the principal.
You must accept all schedule changes; even if it gives you only five minutes; and that goes for winter and summer camps, too.
You must never stare down or raise your voice to your Principal, and never cause your co-teacher to lose face in front of others.
You should study Korean during your free time.
You should play volley ball; unless you want to socially isolate yourself.
Never refill your shot glass of soju yourself. You must drink until you are intoxicated.
If you are a foreign male, then you must never touch Korean women.  |
Oh brother.... Keep it professional... This doesn't fit that description. |
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Chambertin
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: Gunsan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I say do it.
Make my mandatory BS ISS class worth it's weight in gold.
All joking included just imagine the TV show they could make going around interviewing the foreign teachers and then comparing those answers to the local population.
"Are you smarter than a weigook?" Maybe even a Korean version of "Jaywalking" |
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