|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
thegadfly

Joined: 01 Feb 2003
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject: Sincere question about "Korean racism" |
|
|
I know it seems like an inflammatory topic title, but I am sincerely curious about it.
I keep reading about how "racist" Koreans are, and most of these complaints are coming from vanilla folks, who most likely were never on the receiving end of racism in their home countries...and so ANY negative treatment based on race could seem like "a lot."
I am curious if the mocha, chocolate, almond, pralines-and-cream, cinnamon, cocoa, butterscotch, or other non-vanilla flavors of folks think that Korea is very much worse than their home countries....
I will admit that I think the racism is more overt and obvious here, but again, I am vanilla-with-blue-eyes. My own "racist mistreatment" in Korea has been far less than the mistreatment of others that I have observed in my hometown in the US...so, asking the Baskin-Robbins community, how does the racism here stack up to your own personal experience of it back home (and asking those with direct experience, not second-hand experience, like my own). |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Location: I drink therefore I am!
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Sincere question about "Korean racism" |
|
|
thegadfly wrote: |
I know it seems like an inflammatory topic title, but I am sincerely curious about it.
I keep reading about how "racist" Koreans are, and most of these complaints are coming from vanilla folks, who most likely were never on the receiving end of racism in their home countries...and so ANY negative treatment based on race could seem like "a lot."
I am curious if the mocha, chocolate, almond, pralines-and-cream, cinnamon, cocoa, butterscotch, or other non-vanilla flavors of folks think that Korea is very much worse than their home countries....
I will admit that I think the racism is more overt and obvious here, but again, I am vanilla-with-blue-eyes. My own "racist mistreatment" in Korea has been far less than the mistreatment of others that I have observed in my hometown in the US...so, asking the Baskin-Robbins community, how does the racism here stack up to your own personal experience of it back home (and asking those with direct experience, not second-hand experience, like my own). |
I think your basic premise that white people are not subject to racism in America is naive. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I also get annoyed by the supposition that whites are not subject to racism and therefore their opinions are non sequitir.
Quote: |
I am curious if the mocha, chocolate, almond, pralines-and-cream, cinnamon, cocoa, butterscotch, or other non-vanilla flavors of folks think that Korea is very much worse than their home countries.... |
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
hockeyguy109
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Location: Daegu
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Sincere question about "Korean racism" |
|
|
ytuque wrote: |
I think your basic premise that white people are not subject to racism in America is naive. |
I think he means "not subject to racism in SMALL TOWN America." Which I agree with. It's a hard transition. I grew up in Small Town America but after moving to Compton, you certainly get a taste of the other side. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
thegadfly

Joined: 01 Feb 2003
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
...so basically the vanilla-folks get offended when I suggest that they haven't experienced racism in their home countries?
Sorry dudes and dudettes, but you pretty much haven't. You may have seen it, it may have been all around you, but you haven't been on the receiving end of it -- and neither have I. For starters, to be on the receiving end of it, you have to be in the "oppressed" minority -- hell, by that standard, vanilla-folks in Korea don't even qualify -- being vanilla in Korea gets me rock-star treatment...mocha in a small vanilla town in the US probably does NOT afford the same....
...as I said, I am sincerely curious -- I can't compare what I experience here to anything back home because I don't get negative treatment back home based on my flavor...but I know other people DO get negative treatment back home....
If I were asking people who taught in the public schools in the US to talk about their experiences here, no one would argue with me -- they would realize, without having taught in the US, they really couldn't comment on what it is like to teach in the US. Same thing here -- I am asking for folks with first-hand experience to share that experience, if they are willing and feel like it.... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thegadfly wrote: |
...so basically the vanilla-folks get offended when I suggest that they haven't experienced racism in their home countries?
Sorry dudes and dudettes, but you pretty much haven't. You may have seen it, it may have been all around you, but you haven't been on the receiving end of it -- and neither have I. For starters, to be on the receiving end of it, you have to be in the "oppressed" minority -- hell, by that standard, vanilla-folks in Korea don't even qualify -- being vanilla in Korea gets me rock-star treatment...mocha in a small vanilla town in the US probably does NOT afford the same....
...as I said, I am sincerely curious -- I can't compare what I experience here to anything back home because I don't get negative treatment back home based on my flavor...but I know other people DO get negative treatment back home....
If I were asking people who taught in the public schools in the US to talk about their experiences here, no one would argue with me -- they would realize, without having taught in the US, they really couldn't comment on what it is like to teach in the US. Same thing here -- I am asking for folks with first-hand experience to share that experience, if they are willing and feel like it.... |
Some white folks get shot if they walk into the wrong neighborhood. There you have it, racism. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Old Gil

Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Location: Got out! olleh!
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thegadfly wrote: |
...so basically the vanilla-folks get offended when I suggest that they haven't experienced racism in their home countries?
Sorry dudes and dudettes, but you pretty much haven't. |
Sorry but you're not qualified to make that statement unless you're omnipotent. Racism against white people compared to other groups is on the whole much less severe and institutionalized in the US but to say that it doesn't exist is just being willfully ignorant. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
thegadfly

Joined: 01 Feb 2003
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Trevor,
I think your premise that vanilla folks in America ARE subject to racism is basically flawed -- individual rudeness is rudeness (which is what you may experience in America based on whiteness). Institutionalized rudeness, supported by public systems is the basis of my own definition of racism.
Guess how many times I have been stopped by the police in my life? Maybe 25. How many times have I been asked to step out of the car and open the trunk? Never. Nor have I ever been asked why I was in that neighborhood, nor if I knew anyone around the area. Of course, I DO get those kinds of questions in Korea...but I wonder how common they are for cinnamon or caramel folks in the US....
I am sure people have been mean to you, Trevor, and may even have done so because they do not like white people...but that isn't racism -- that is people just being jerks. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
oskinny1

Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Location: Right behind you!
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thegadfly wrote: |
For starters, to be on the receiving end of it, you have to be in the "oppressed" minority -- hell, by that standard, vanilla-folks in Korea don't even qualify -- being vanilla in Korea gets me rock-star treatment...mocha in a small vanilla town in the US probably does NOT afford the same.... |
Didn't know we had to go off of your own personal definition for racism.
From Dictionary.com
Quote: |
noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
|
I am white and have been on the receiving end of the racism stick while teaching in small town America. Does it compare with what Rosa Parks had to go through? No, but everyone experiences and reacts to things in different ways. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
thegadfly

Joined: 01 Feb 2003
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow, white folks with a victim mentality! Good lord!
The government systems in the US currently favor white folks -- from police, fire, and government offices, all the way to Hollywood and television. The loss of privileges is not the same as persecution! If you have more than your fair share, and then lose some of it, you AREN'T being treated unfairly. This white-entitlement crap that I am seeing here is sickening...and totally off-topic.
I started this thread based on comments I had seen in other threads. Rather than thread-jack, I decided to start my own.
I was hoping to hear opinions from the other 30 flavors, since I am vanilla and know about the vanilla experience. Your own vanilla-mileage may vary, but I want to hear from the caramel contingent or any of the 29 remaining, unnamed flavors.... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
thegadfly

Joined: 01 Feb 2003
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, yes, yes, you got shabby treatment in your home country -- so did I, so did we all. I lived in neighborhoods where I was the only vanilla face -- but some folks were nice to me -- they didn't call me vanilla, they called me White Chocolate (seriously, they actually did).
...and this gets me no closer to answering my actual question.
Oh, Oskinny,
I am going with definition 1 or 2 on your list -- the third one down is the one you are using...my definition includes 1 and 2 while not excluding 3, whereas you are using 3 to the exclusion of 1 and 2...so you are not disproving my point, only showing that you are selectively employing a definition to suit your own purposes.... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Old Gil

Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Location: Got out! olleh!
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thegadfly wrote: |
Wow, white folks with a victim mentality! Good lord!
|
Pointing out that racism exists against a certain group is not a victim mentality it's just a fact. Saying that white people are the most oppressed group in America would be a victim mentality. You're a trollio. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
skim234
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If people here consider being stared at by an ajushi on the subway as racism, then the term has really lost its meaning. Ask the Jews what racism really is about (even though they aren't technically a race).
As a Korean-American, I got dirty looks in small town America (I'm from Houston but driving around Texas, there's plenty of smalltown). In Houston itself, I'd get stared at by Mexicans of all people. The Mexicans wouldn't act racially aggressive or anything towards me, just more in awe of the fact that they see someone other than a white person or Mexican.
Is it annoying? Yes. Is it racist? No. It's a bit of an overstatement to say that someone who stares at you curiously is a full-fledged racist.
I do think a lot of Americans/whites who come from areas where white is the predominant race, are taken aback by the fact that they stand out in a society that doesn't see as much racial diversity as we do/did in America.
I think a lot of people are naive about racism. I personally don't give a damn if someone SAYS a racial slur to me or LOOKS at me funny. At the end of the day, I'm not negatively affected. If some racist bastard physically harms me, then I'd say that's legit cause for concern.
The world is very globalized as far TV programming, commercial products, food, etc. but it still isn't racially diverse outside of Europe, the US and Canada. Ignorance doesn't always equate to racism. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know whether this thread is about the "Korean History Channel's Chocolate People" or what flavor to get at Baskin & Robbins. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
madtownhustl
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
|
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thegadfly wrote: |
Wow, white folks with a victim mentality! Good lord!
The government systems in the US currently favor white folks -- from police, fire, and government offices, all the way to Hollywood and television. The loss of privileges is not the same as persecution! If you have more than your fair share, and then lose some of it, you AREN'T being treated unfairly. This white-entitlement crap that I am seeing here is sickening...and totally off-topic. |
See: Affirmative Action. Your wrong. Hell, federal jobs even ask for your race nowadays. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|