|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Axiom
Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Junior wrote: |
So on one side you have myself, Manner of speaking and ChrisJ2 who agree that the science and data is pretty clear that the climate is warming and that human activity must at least have some contribution to it.
Then on the other you have Mises and VisQ who vacillate between denying warming is human caused to denying its actually happening at all if they can get away with it...and use ever more extreme language and crazy sources to spam the board...rvealing their basic emotionalism and irrationality.
Un;less someone more reasoned and logical steps forward from the deniers, then I think this debate is basically over... |
Any of us are free to leave anytime |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Axiom
Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Axiom
Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063707.html
Quote: |
".............
Shaviv refuses to get worked up: "The hysteria surrounding the concept of 'global warming' will fade over the years," he says. "People will see that the apocalyptic forecasts are not coming true. Today there is no fingerprint attesting that carbon dioxide emission causes a rise in temperature.
................." |
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Axiom
Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: Re: AGW |
|
|
chris_J2 wrote: |
There's a big difference between scepticism, & denial, visitorq. And just because one group of climatologists in the UK display an abysmmal lack of integrity & professionalism (CRU), doesn't automatically translate to all other climatologists as also being corrupt on a global scale. Your 'wonjc' theory is just laughable. |
I never used the words "all" or "automatically". But the fact is that the fraudulent data has been used all over the world (including the bogus hockey stick model, which is used by the CSIRO to this day), and several top Australian scientists were directly complicit in those emails. But you won't even read the emails, because YOU'RE the one who's in denial.
Quote: |
I worked in the Australian Government, for nearly 3 decades, & went to the BOM, (Bureau of Meteorology) several times, back in 1974, when I was 18. This was well before the internet age of the 90's. I manually transcribed rainfall data from the direct BOM sources (which most academics would agree is the best source), assisting hydrologists. I transcribed the data exactly as I saw it. I also transcribed data from pluviographs (automatic rainfall recording devices) which was later utilised in planning the now completed Teemburra Creek Dam. Even if anyone had offered me money or other inducements to over or under state the actual data, I would have pointblank refused. Does that make me a co-conspirator, simply because I've used actual BOM data? You'd have to be a complete moron to think so. This may come as a shock to some sceptics, but a lot of scientists still have integrity, & no amount of bribe money or threats will sway them. |
Yeah, and I'm the Don Diego's arch nemesis, Basil Rathbone. Nice to meet you.
Quote: |
To the other adversaries (axiom, mises, gopher, the urban myth et al) kudoes to you, for keeping this discussion civil & cordial, for the most part. To 'junior' & 'manner of speaking', thanks for joining in the debate, even though it's been trying at times. To visitorq, play the ball, not the man. |
Keep your advice to yourself. Hypocrite. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
visitorq wrote: |
The mainstream media (controlled by the same interests who control big oil) is covering it up as best they can. |
So the BBC is owned by Big Oil companies? Amazing.
Just thought I'd round off this thread with some gems from the world of VisitorQ.
Quote: |
As for polar bears, they're thriving and are in zero danger whatsoever of going extinct. Their habitat is not disappearing |
Quote: |
Polar bear numbers are increasing |
Quote: |
satellite images taken in the middle of summer don't mean a thing. The ice comes back in the winter. |
Quote: |
In fact, the concentration of CO2 follows the temperature, not vice versa |
Source?
Quote: |
15 million years ago, the PH level of the ocean was 8.33 |
You were there with your grade 1 science kit?
Quote: |
Everyone knows life on earth is incapable of adapting to any changes in the environment. |
Does that include the dinosaurs?
Quote: |
The world has never changed in billions of years |
Except for the radically different atmospheric size and composition you mentioned earlier?
Quote: |
The same people who own the oil companies descended from Standard Oil (Exxon Mobil et al, all Rockefeller controlled)) also control global the banking system, and are pushing for carbon taxes to fund world government. |
Quote: |
The people who control Exxon Mobil want nothing better than get carbon taxes into place |
So...Exxon Mobil pours millions into discrediting AGW and suing their scientists..because they want AGW to succeed and have carbon taxes imposed?
So they're actually working against their own interests?
Quote: |
The AGW sham is perfect for the oil companies - and for people like Al Gore (who are tied in). |
So Al Gore is secretly a rancid profiteering capitalist, a double agent secretly on the side of the Oil companies?
Quote: |
the sun is what causes climate change |
So the climate is actually changing then?
Quote: |
the world is not getting warmer |
Oh...so its not changing after all? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Junior wrote: |
[
If you can keep track of the contradictions and logic-defying feats of imagination... ..Here are some gems from the world of VisitorQ.
Quote: |
As for polar bears, they're thriving and are in zero danger whatsoever of going extinct. Their habitat is not disappearing |
Quote: |
Polar bear numbers are increasing |
|
Why are you ing? These are facts.
Quote: |
Quote: |
satellite images taken in the middle of summer don't mean a thing. The ice comes back in the winter. |
|
Seems reasonable to me. What's so funny?
Quote: |
Quote: |
In fact, the concentration of CO2 follows the temperature, not vice versa |
Source?
|
Al Gore has a graph in his movie that shows just this. You just have to look closely and passed the rhetoric.
Quote: |
Quote: |
Everyone knows life on earth is incapable of adapting to any changes in the environment. |
Does that include the dinosaurs? |
Dinosuars are believed to have been wiped out by a meteor. A meteor which threw up a massive dust cloud which obscured the sun. This also killed many other species.
Also I think he was being sarcastic.
Quote: |
Quote: |
The world has never changed in billions of years |
Except for the radically different atmospheric size and composition you mentioned earlier? |
Sarcasm.
Quote: |
Quote: |
The same people who own the oil companies descended from Standard Oil (Exxon Mobil et al, all Rockefeller controlled)) also control global the banking system, and are pushing for carbon taxes to fund world government. |
Quote: |
The people who control Exxon Mobil want nothing better than get carbon taxes into place |
So...Exxon Mobil pours millions into discrediting AGW and suing their scientists..because they want AGW to succeed and have carbon taxes imposed?
So they're actually working against their own interests?
|
Like most on the left, you don't understand economics. VQ actually explained to you in an earlier post why ETS and such, benefits big oil. Carbon taxes will drive up the price of oil. Some of that money will end up in the pockets of the oil companies.
Quote: |
Quote: |
The AGW sham is perfect for the oil companies - and for people like Al Gore (who are tied in). |
So Al Gore is secretly a rancid profiteering capitalist, a double agent secretly on the side of the Oil companies? |
He is in it to line his own pockets. So are the oil companies. Everyone, except the average person of course, stands to gain.
Quote: |
Quote: |
the sun is what causes climate change |
So the climate is actually changing then? |
I would be surprised if VQ denies climate change. Denying climate change is like denying the sun rising. The Earth was a ball of molten rock 6 billion years ago. Climate change is a natural occurrence. The causes of those changes were likely set in motion thousands, maybe millions of years ago.
Quote: |
Quote: |
the world is not getting warmer |
Oh...so its not changing after all? |
[/quote]
Data from the last decade proves this. The world isn't warming right now. The climate is changing but that isn't cause for alarm. Change is the only constant in nature. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Junior wrote: |
visitorq wrote: |
The mainstream media (controlled by the same interests who control big oil) is covering it up as best they can. |
So the BBC is owned by Big Oil companies? Amazing. |
Big oil is controlled by the banking elite. The bankers also run the government (they are the real government). The BBC is an extension of the government. Get it yet?
Quote: |
If you can keep track of the contradictions and logic-defying feats of imagination... ..Here are some gems from the world of VisitorQ. |
Pearls before swine, would be more like it.
Quote: |
Quote: |
As for polar bears, they're thriving and are in zero danger whatsoever of going extinct. Their habitat is not disappearing |
Quote: |
Polar bear numbers are increasing |
|
You roll your eyes at the truth. Ok.
Quote: |
Quote: |
satellite images taken in the middle of summer don't mean a thing. The ice comes back in the winter. |
|
You consider the truth funny. Ok.
Quote: |
Quote: |
In fact, the concentration of CO2 follows the temperature, not vice versa |
Source? |
This is a well known fact that CO2 lags behind temperature by around 800 years. If you google it, you'll get around 23 million hits. Here's one of many:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/30/co2-temperatures-and-ice-ages/
Learn to read, junior. Only then will you escape your ignorance.
Quote: |
Quote: |
15 million years ago, the PH level of the ocean was 8.33 |
You were there with your grade 1 science kit? |
I never wrote this. I'm won't say it's not true though.
Quote: |
Quote: |
Everyone knows life on earth is incapable of adapting to any changes in the environment. |
Does that include the dinosaurs? |
Huh?
Quote: |
Quote: |
The world has never changed in billions of years |
Except for the radically different atmospheric size and composition you mentioned earlier? |
I was being 100% sarcastic in that post, einstein.
Quote: |
Quote: |
The same people who own the oil companies descended from Standard Oil (Exxon Mobil et al, all Rockefeller controlled)) also control global the banking system, and are pushing for carbon taxes to fund world government. |
Quote: |
The people who control Exxon Mobil want nothing better than get carbon taxes into place |
So...Exxon Mobil pours millions into discrediting AGW and suing their scientists..because they want AGW to succeed and have carbon taxes imposed?
So they're actually working against their own interests? |
Millions? No wonder you're so clueless- you think small! The money at stake in the AGW scam is trillions, not millions. When the AGW panic causes oil prices to go up, Exxon Mobil makes billions of dollars more. The odd million they throw around to conservative think tanks is just to confuse dim-witted morons. I take it you're one of those who are confused.
Quote: |
Quote: |
The AGW sham is perfect for the oil companies - and for people like Al Gore (who are tied in). |
So Al Gore is secretly a rancid profiteering capitalist, a double agent secretly on the side of the Oil companies? |
Precisely. This is even on record (a large portion of Al Gore's fortune comes from Occidental Petroleum, and he is set to be the first billionaire from his business ventures in carbon trading). He is a despicable, lying piece of trash who deserves to be locked up till the end of time.
Quote: |
Quote: |
the sun is what causes climate change |
So the climate is actually changing then? |
The climate certainly does change. This is a natural phenomenon.
Quote: |
Quote: |
the world is not getting warmer |
Oh...so its not changing after all? |
Oh, so you don't regard cooling as "change" then. Wow, you're really on the ball.
Last edited by visitorq on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chris_J2

Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: AGW |
|
|
visitorq wrote
Quote: |
Keep your advice to yourself. Hypocrite. |
If you can't or won't follow the terms of service that you agreed to, when you joined this site, then the moderators will be the ones taking action, not me. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: Re: AGW |
|
|
chris_J2 wrote: |
visitorq wrote
Quote: |
Keep your advice to yourself. Hypocrite. |
If you can't or won't follow the terms of service that you agreed to, when you joined this site, then the moderators will be the ones taking action, not me. |
You're a hypocrite because you want me to do as you say, not as you do. How many times have I have reported you to the mods for your insults? Zero. Because I'm not a little control freak cry baby. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Location: On your computer screen.
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
Quote: |
Quote: |
The same people who own the oil companies descended from Standard Oil (Exxon Mobil et al, all Rockefeller controlled)) also control global the banking system, and are pushing for carbon taxes to fund world government. |
Quote: |
The people who control Exxon Mobil want nothing better than get carbon taxes into place |
So...Exxon Mobil pours millions into discrediting AGW and suing their scientists..because they want AGW to succeed and have carbon taxes imposed?
So they're actually working against their own interests?
|
Like most on the left, you don't understand economics. VQ actually explained to you in an earlier post why ETS and such, benefits big oil. Carbon taxes will drive up the price of oil. Some of that money will end up in the pockets of the oil companies.
|
BS. Explain why Exxon funded AGW skeptic groups otherwise your conspiracy theory falls completely flat.
Quote: |
The world's largest oil company is continuing to fund lobby groups that question the reality of global warming, despite a public pledge to cut support for such climate change denial, a new analysis shows.
Company records show that ExxonMobil handed over hundreds of thousands of pounds to such lobby groups in 2008. These include the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) in Dallas, Texas, which received $75,000 (�45,500), and the Heritage Foundation in Washington DC, which received $50,000. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/01/exxon-mobil-climate-change-sceptics-funding |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Junior wrote: |
visitorq wrote: |
In fact, the concentration of CO2 follows the temperature, not vice versa |
Source? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRaeEIN5Sh8&feature=related
The science is fairly settled that increasing global temperatures cause increased CO2 levels and not conversely.
Climategate exposes the cabal that supported the carbon tax for the enrichment of Al Gore et al. based on lies and phoney science.
It's the al gore et al cabal.
Phoney pictures promote the lie of declining habitat for polar bears. A little global warming may actually increase their population and range of habitation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwwhY17F_1s&feature=related |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chris_J2

Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/22823/0
"The IUCN states, "If climatic trends continue, polar bears may become extirpated from most of their range within 100 years." On May 14, 2008, the United States Department of the Interior listed the polar bear as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act."
"The huge loss of summer sea ice in 2007 has caused many scientists to project that the Arctic could be ice-free in summer by as soon as 2012. Although excellent swimmers, polar bears are not very good at catching seals in the water. Seals comprise the main diet for these giant bears, which are far larger than their grizzly bear cousins."
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=41550
Hardly sounds like the polar bear population is increasing, contrary to the jibberish & misinformation spread by visitorq. And yes, I noticed mention of the IPCC in the links. But that was only one of 2 separate sources listed.
Quote: |
Population: There are nineteen hypothesized subpopulations or stocks which number in total 20,000 to 25,000 bears. Considerable overlap of putative populations occurs and genetic differences among them are small.
Population Trend: Decreasing |
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/22823/0 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
chris_J2 wrote: |
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/22823/0
"The IUCN states, "If climatic trends continue, polar bears may become extirpated from most of their range within 100 years." On May 14, 2008, the United States Department of the Interior listed the polar bear as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act."
"The huge loss of summer sea ice in 2007 has caused many scientists to project that the Arctic could be ice-free in summer by as soon as 2012. Although excellent swimmers, polar bears are not very good at catching seals in the water. Seals comprise the main diet for these giant bears, which are far larger than their grizzly bear cousins."
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=41550
Hardly sounds like the polar bear population is increasing, contrary to the jibberish & misinformation spread by visitorq. And yes, I noticed mention of the IPCC in the links. But that was only one of 2 separate sources listed.
Quote: |
Population: There are nineteen hypothesized subpopulations or stocks which number in total 20,000 to 25,000 bears. Considerable overlap of putative populations occurs and genetic differences among them are small.
Population Trend: Decreasing |
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/22823/0 |
All your sources are bunk. The IUCN is just another UN tentacle, totally worthless as an authority. You have been brainwashed to the core. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|