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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Combined with the fact that we no longer produce anything |
Reminds me of Krugman's quip that America paid for China's toxic toys with toxic securities. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Now that the FDIC is broke, the government will probably have to print billions and eventually trillions of dollars and give it to them.
The states are broke and they'll need bailouts just to keep stars from falling off the US flag.  Check out this from the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget-deficit18-2009nov18,0,7647152.story
| latimes wrote: |
| California's finances have been so bad that the governor's finance director, Mike Genest, told a budget forum in Washington last week that back in February he had combed through the U.S. Constitution to research whether California could legally declare bankruptcy -- or revert to some kind of territorial status. (Neither was realistic, he determined.) |
It seems like our debts have reached such a surreal, insurmountable level that the numbers of $12 trillion or $99 trillion or whatever trillion is almost irrelevent since we can't pay it back or even reduce it given the budget proposals and the way employment, income and tax revenues continue to plummet.
I don't even care about Fort Knox anymore. Isn't the gold in Fort Knox, if it's there, only worth around $300 billion? We've spent over $700 billion on the Iraq War so far and when you're talking about a $12 trillion debt, or a $99 trillion debt, or several QUADRILLION dollars in derivatives then the gold in Fort Knox looks more and more like a drop in the bucket.
The Fort Knox gold is irrelevant, but it seems like it's imperative for individuals to own gold. With trillions of obligation before we have to bail out every bank deposit in America, more insurance companies, every state in the Union except for maybe North Dakota it's not looking good for the dollar in the long term or even the medium term. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
I don't even care about Fort Knox anymore. Isn't the gold in Fort Knox, if it's there, only worth around $300 billion? We've spent over $700 billion on the Iraq War so far and when you're talking about a $12 trillion debt, or a $99 trillion debt, or several QUADRILLION dollars in derivatives then the gold in Fort Knox looks more and more like a drop in the bucket.
The Fort Knox gold is irrelevant, but it seems like it's imperative for individuals to own gold. With trillions of obligation before we have to bail out every bank deposit in America, more insurance companies, every state in the Union except for maybe North Dakota it's not looking good for the dollar in the long term or even the medium term. |
Actually, while I agree with the rest of your post, regarding Fort Knox gold it seems you're overlooking the point that Fed money is not real money. Gold is real money. If the dollar hyper-inflates, then gold prices will skyrocket (possibly to several thousands of dollars per ounce - the sky's the limit). The gold that is supposed to be in Fort Knox will then represent a very large portion of the true money supply on earth (the current "$300 billion" amount is arbitrary). It will be worth more than all the defunct fiat money combined.
But as we speak the banks are using the fiat money they create out of nothing to fraudulently buy up all the real assets like gold (including stealing public gold from Fort Knox) before the dollar collapses. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Reggie wrote: |
I don't even care about Fort Knox anymore. Isn't the gold in Fort Knox, if it's there, only worth around $300 billion? We've spent over $700 billion on the Iraq War so far and when you're talking about a $12 trillion debt, or a $99 trillion debt, or several QUADRILLION dollars in derivatives then the gold in Fort Knox looks more and more like a drop in the bucket.
The Fort Knox gold is irrelevant, but it seems like it's imperative for individuals to own gold. With trillions of obligation before we have to bail out every bank deposit in America, more insurance companies, every state in the Union except for maybe North Dakota it's not looking good for the dollar in the long term or even the medium term. |
Actually, while I agree with the rest of your post, regarding Fort Knox gold it seems you're overlooking the point that Fed money is not real money. Gold is real money. If the dollar hyper-inflates, then gold prices will skyrocket (possibly to several thousands of dollars per ounce - the sky's the limit). The gold that is supposed to be in Fort Knox will then represent a very large portion of the true money supply on earth (the current "$300 billion" amount is arbitrary). It will be worth more than all the defunct fiat money combined.
But as we speak the banks are using the fiat money they create out of nothing to fraudulently buy up all the real assets like gold (including stealing public gold from Fort Knox) before the dollar collapses. |
+1
The real dollar value of gold is probably already over $5000 per oz, meaning that from the time when there was 1 ounce of gold on deposit for every $20 in circulation to now where there may be only 1 ounce for every $5000 in circulation (or less), the US dollar has lost 99.6% of its value thanks to the socialists and the Federal Reserve. We won't know how bad it is until we get a complete, honest audit of the Fed and the US treasury.
The Fed and it's foreign counterparts have been manipulating prices of gold and other commodities for decades. If they were not protected by the fascist-socialists, the Fed Chairmen, governors and all of their associates would be in prison with Bernie Madoff for a scheme thousands of times larger and more evil than Madoff ever dreamed.
It is going off the gold standard and the subsequent inflation and financial panics that has caused every recession and depression in the history of the US. |
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Jeonmunka
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:07 am Post subject: |
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^ Well, there were plenty of other shitty things that occured despite the dollar or whathaveyou being backed by gold - there was the civil war for example that killed like 10% of American men. There were terrible atrocities done.
Frankly I prefer to think that money isn't everything and better to get ahead in other ways.
For example, I quit smoking. In money terms that is immediately giving me an extra 3000 dollars a year. Also, it'll give me an extra 10-15 years. And, if the worst of times accrue and I end up in a prison camp I won't be trading my potatoes for smokes. So, I'll be eating better than other inmates.
And, not smoking makes me wanna do some gardening. Think I'll start a vege garden.
This is a positive change that doesn't have anything really to do with money.
It's nice to think about ways that actually increase your wealth yet have nothing to do with money at all. |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| redhed wrote: |
| I like to keep up my lead reserves in times like this. I can swap it for food and gold both. |
If the world ever really falls apart, ammunition and seeds will probably be among the most valuable things to own. Even gold loses its value in the absence of any form of civilization. Still a lot better than Fed paper though. |
Does anybody know the shelf life of high quality ammo? It could be a decent small investment. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Today the dollar continued its fall against the more than 4000 year stable value of gold.
When the Federal Reserve was created, it cost approx. $20 for one oz of gold.
Now the dollar has fallen to nearly $1200 per oz. of gold.
Today, $1195. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Today the dollar continued its fall against the more than 4000 year stable value of gold.
When the Federal Reserve was created, it cost approx. $20 for one oz of gold.
Now the dollar has fallen to nearly $1200 per oz. of gold.
Today, $1195. |
Ontheway, you should read this commentary from Sprott:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Sprott%20AM%20-%20Embry%20Nov%202009.pdf |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: |
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http://news.coinupdate.com/us-mint-suspends-sales-of-gold-and-silver-eagle-coins-0053/
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The United States Mint has suspended sales of their popular one ounce American Gold Eagle and one ounce American Silver Eagle bullion coins. The suspension was announced in a memo sent to the US Mint's authorized bullion purchasers.
The suspension comes during an environment of steadily rising precious metals prices and increased demand for physical gold and silver investments. This month alone, the price of gold and silver have each risen by approximately 12%.
During the month of November, the US Mint has recorded sales of 124,000 one ounce Gold Eagles and 3,132,000 one ounce Silver Eagles. Sales of the Silver Eagle have now reached 25,993,000 to date, which already exceeds the record number of coins sold in the prior year. Sales of the Gold Eagle have reached 1,193,500 to date. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
http://news.coinupdate.com/us-mint-suspends-sales-of-gold-and-silver-eagle-coins-0053/
| Quote: |
The United States Mint has suspended sales of their popular one ounce American Gold Eagle and one ounce American Silver Eagle bullion coins. The suspension was announced in a memo sent to the US Mint's authorized bullion purchasers.
The suspension comes during an environment of steadily rising precious metals prices and increased demand for physical gold and silver investments. This month alone, the price of gold and silver have each risen by approximately 12%.
During the month of November, the US Mint has recorded sales of 124,000 one ounce Gold Eagles and 3,132,000 one ounce Silver Eagles. Sales of the Silver Eagle have now reached 25,993,000 to date, which already exceeds the record number of coins sold in the prior year. Sales of the Gold Eagle have reached 1,193,500 to date. |
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Is this a step towards the government's confiscating citizens' gold? What do you think is the likelihood of that? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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There is no chance of that, I reckon. Citizens don't hold enough gold for it to matter. Governments and institutions hold the vast majority of gold. Picking up the crumbs from average Americans won't accomplish jack.
Why the problem with Gold Eagles? Read the Sprott piece above (the ZH link). The pressure on the physical market is tremendous now. There are immense amounts of duplicate (triplicate) paper for each physical bar. Institutions and governments are 'taking delivery'. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Gold hit $1202 today, and silver is above $19. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Jeonmunka
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| What to do about the latest gold price fizzle. Down 5%. |
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