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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| Summer Wine wrote: |
We don't wake up thinking what muslim can we kill today.
We are concerned though, that this is how thier extremists view us. |
You may worry about Islamic extremists traveling halfway around the world to kill you, but ordinary Muslims in Iraq and elsewhere have to worry about mainstream Christians and Jews traveling to the Middle East to kill them. |
I would add a correction to this: They are sometimes concerned about Americans, British, etc., traveling to the Mid-East to fight them.
The religion of the soldier is not relevant. They are volunteers in a volunteer army that is voluntarily at war. While the soldiers themselves may not volunteer for an individual conflict (they may, if they like), they did volunteer to join the U.S. military and to take on all of the responsibilities entailed therein.
We are not selecting Christians and Jews to go forth and get revenge or commit hate crimes. Therefore the religion of the Allied soldier is not relevant and can only serve to fan the flames of extremism behind enemy lines and elsewhere.
As for the OP: I find the quotation to be a reasonable statement. I find the estimate to be a little fantastic, but not altogether unrealistic. Circumstances have dictated that we fight primarily Muslim enemies in the past, the present, and probably the future. The fact that they are Muslim is only relevant to them. The United States does not dictate nor does it practice a policy of selectively fighting a particular religion. I'll consider this estimate to be worthwhile and interesting when it is published alongside an authoritative estimate of Non-Muslim casualties of American and allied conflicts.
Until then, I'll have little more to spare those who feel victimized than a Kleenex and a pat on the back. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
The number sounds extremely low. I would bet we've killed way more than that in Iraq alone just since 1990.
What nobody ever talks about is how our enemies were able to recruit only a couple dozen Muslims from various countries to attack America, while we've been able to recruit hundreds of thousands of Christians from the USA, Britain, Poland, South Korea, and elsewhere to attack Iraq.
While people tend to complain about Muslims committing acts of violence, and rightfully so, it's clear that a lot of Christians, Jews, and Muslims need to do some soul searching and get some life straightening. |
This is a silly post. These armies are secular not Christian. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Reggie wrote: |
The number sounds extremely low. I would bet we've killed way more than that in Iraq alone just since 1990.
What nobody ever talks about is how our enemies were able to recruit only a couple dozen Muslims from various countries to attack America, while we've been able to recruit hundreds of thousands of Christians from the USA, Britain, Poland, South Korea, and elsewhere to attack Iraq.
While people tend to complain about Muslims committing acts of violence, and rightfully so, it's clear that a lot of Christians, Jews, and Muslims need to do some soul searching and get some life straightening. |
This is a silly post. These armies are secular not Christian. |
Even if you want to consider the rationale behind these wars purely secular, the demographics of the armies in question and the men making the decisions are not meaningless. It's still primarily Christian volunteer armies attacking a decidedly un-Christian nation. The Commander in Chief at the time of the invasion was also quite religious. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Reggie wrote: |
The number sounds extremely low. I would bet we've killed way more than that in Iraq alone just since 1990.
What nobody ever talks about is how our enemies were able to recruit only a couple dozen Muslims from various countries to attack America, while we've been able to recruit hundreds of thousands of Christians from the USA, Britain, Poland, South Korea, and elsewhere to attack Iraq.
While people tend to complain about Muslims committing acts of violence, and rightfully so, it's clear that a lot of Christians, Jews, and Muslims need to do some soul searching and get some life straightening. |
This is a silly post. These armies are secular not Christian. |
Even if you want to consider the rationale behind these wars purely secular, the demographics of the armies in question and the men making the decisions are not meaningless. It's still primarily Christian volunteer armies attacking a decidedly un-Christian nation. The Commander in Chief at the time of the invasion was also quite religious. |
The COC might have well been religious...which is neither here nor there.
Christians don't tend to go into the army (I am talking here about people who take their faith seriously as opposed to NOMINAL Christians). Sure there may be a few but this isn't the Crusades. |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
The question is nonsense and inflammatory; it seems to derive from a clash-of-civilizations perspective; and it wholly ignores any and all positive marks on this overly-simplistic tally sheet.
Sounds like a Michael Moore film, On the Other Hand.
And by the way, if killing poor, victimized Muslims is your forte, perhaps you ought to consider South Asia's Hindus, or Serbia, or Muslim-on-Muslim violence throughout the Near East, for that matter. Start with the Iran-Iraq war. Wait, that was all America's doing, no?
You were saying something about "tripe," I believe... |
Yeah! What he said! |
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Ivor
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Location: Wherever you are!! Really! (in Daejeon)
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: interesting info |
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Yah, well, they started it. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher is correct. There were an estimated 1 million deaths during the Iran -vs- Iran war from 1980-1988.
| Quote: |
| The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes and fears of Shia insurgency among Iraq's long-suppressed Shia majority influenced by the Iranian Revolution. Although Iraq hoped to take advantage of revolutionary chaos in Iran and attacked without formal warning, they made only limited progress into Iran and within several months were repelled by the Iranians who regained virtually all lost territory by June, 1982 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
He was obviously being slightly sarcastic, by suggesting the US was responsible for the Iraq / Iran war.
Good point about the humanitarian aid, too. |
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Ivor
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Location: Wherever you are!! Really! (in Daejeon)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: Re: interesting info |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
Yah, well, they started it. |
ummm...most neutral observers clearly understand that its the american-israeli lobby that has killed thousands of palestinians, and therefore the muslims hate them both.
What will it take america to understand that?
Anyways, the American dream is down the drain now. Thanks to American economic and foreign policy!
A LOOOONG list of American Imperialismhttp://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| That number seems very, very low. |
I thought the same.
Well, I thought two things:
(1) The number seems very, very low in and of itself
(2) The number seems very, very low compared to the numbers of Muslims killed by Muslim terrorists.
Only a tiny minority of victims in Islamic terrorist attacks are non-Muslims.
Since 9/11, there've been 14,505 terror attacks. Any 'attack' can kill one person to 127 (in Baghdad last week) or 200+ (Bali), so in just one decade, we're probably looking at least 100,000 innocent Muslim civilians not just merely killed, but deliberately murdered by virgins-hunting, devout, pious followers of Islam. And over the decades, millions.
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The terrorists do not pause before deliberately blowing up the mosques and religious processions of those whose Muslim beliefs they deem insufficiently devout. Most of those now being tortured and raped and executed by the Islamic Republic of Iran are Muslim. All the women being scarred with acid and threatened with murder for the crime of going to school in Pakistan are Muslim. Many of those killed in London, Madrid, and New York were Muslim, and almost all the victims callously destroyed in similar atrocities in Istanbul, Cairo, Casablanca, and Algiers in the recent past were Muslim, too. It takes a true intellectual to survey this appalling picture and to say that we invite attacks on our off-duty soldiers because "the hawkish war-on-terrorism strategy�a global anti-jihad that creates nonstop imagery of Americans killing Muslims�is so dubious."
http://www.slate.com/id/2236442/ |
But still, I'm sure it's all Israel's fault, or perhaps the weather. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
| That number seems very, very low. |
I thought the same.
Well, I thought two things:
(1) The number seems very, very low in and of itself
(2) The number seems very, very low compared to the numbers of Muslims killed by Muslim terrorists.
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Yes, these numbers of certainly very low compared to the numbers of Muslims killed by other Muslims but given the amount of hardware the US has dropped on Iraq I would guess these numbers would themselves pale against the true number of people America has helped dispatch since embarking on it's current adventure in Iraq. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
| That number seems very, very low. |
I thought the same.
Well, I thought two things:
(1) The number seems very, very low in and of itself
(2) The number seems very, very low compared to the numbers of Muslims killed by Muslim terrorists.
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Yes, these numbers of certainly very low compared to the numbers of Muslims killed by other Muslims but given the amount of hardware the US has dropped on Iraq I would guess these numbers would themselves pale against the true number of people America has helped dispatch since embarking on it's current adventure in Iraq. |
The USA has been killing insurgents (taliban and al queda) which have shown a lot of willingness to kill other muslims for thier religous or political reasons. |
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shinramyun
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| So what? The Israelis have been killing more than that since the day nation of israel was found. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Nope, they haven't. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| The USA has been killing insurgents (taliban and al queda) which have shown a lot of willingness to kill other muslims for thier religous or political reasons. |
The Americans certainly killed a lot of innocent Iraqis, but unfortunately the Sunni/Shia Civil War has seen the wholesale and deliberate slaughter of innocent civilians - and there's no moral equivalence between largely accidental killing and murder. And surely all agree that murder in the belief that it yields a divine reward - involving sex - is yet more heinous still.
Such a boring topic, however. |
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