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suspected of a bad hogwon review
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planthopps



Joined: 05 May 2008
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:18 am    Post subject: suspected of a bad hogwon review Reply with quote

I came to a hakwon a few months ago and I wasn't happy with the school. I wasn't happy because of the usual contract violations no health insurance etc. So I wrote an honest review of the school on a website. I warned people about the recruiter which is employed by the school ( I didn't know that when coming to work for them) and the owner.

They have a teacher that has been here for three years and will say anything the owner tells him to say to other teachers interviewing the school overseas. Anyhow I posted it without any personal information and the recruiter is now accusing me of doing so without any solid proof.

He told me tonight," I will give you until Monday to change it before I tell the owner about what you did." My question is what if anything could they do to me if I don't change it online? They have done the usual crapwon routine to other teachers before me, ( 11th month dismissals) but I also know that there is no personal information and it was posted under an alias.

So is he just blowing smoke or should I do something about it? He also is the "foreign teacher supervisor", even though he basically runs his recruiting business from his office at the school and we hardly see him. I got health insurance finally and the job isn't as bad as it was since we got a new location. I also have only worked at this particular school for less than 4 months.
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just change it



(change it back when you no longer work there)
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VanIslander wrote:
just change it



(change it back when you no longer work there)



But wouldn't that just give the recruiter the proof that he did write it?
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lifeinkorea



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mentioning what one recruiter did or didn't do properly doesn't amount to a wrong that a company does because of policy. Even if you are right about this one recruiter, it doesn't mean the company is bad.

So, if you worded it as a review of the company, you may want to change it. If you simply talked about it as one recruiter in company, it shouldn't be a problem.

Also, the recruiter doesn't know what the hagwon will do. They are just trying to be matchmaker. The real review should weigh heavily on the hagwon.
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planthopps



Joined: 05 May 2008
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was worded pertaining to just that recruiter and the franchise owner of the school.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: suspected of a bad hogwon review Reply with quote

planthopps wrote:
I came to a hakwon a few months ago and I wasn't happy with the school. I wasn't happy because of the usual contract violations no health insurance etc. So I wrote an honest review of the school on a website. I warned people about the recruiter which is employed by the school ( I didn't know that when coming to work for them) and the owner.

They have a teacher that has been here for three years and will say anything the owner tells him to say to other teachers interviewing the school overseas. Anyhow I posted it without any personal information and the recruiter is now accusing me of doing so without any solid proof.

He told me tonight," I will give you until Monday to change it before I tell the owner about what you did." My question is what if anything could they do to me if I don't change it online? They have done the usual crapwon routine to other teachers before me, ( 11th month dismissals) but I also know that there is no personal information and it was posted under an alias.

So is he just blowing smoke or should I do something about it? He also is the "foreign teacher supervisor", even though he basically runs his recruiting business from his office at the school and we hardly see him. I got health insurance finally and the job isn't as bad as it was since we got a new location. I also have only worked at this particular school for less than 4 months.



Korea has strong laws against libel and even truthfulness is not always a defense if you hurt the ability of another person or business to earn a living.

You can easily be identified as the poster just by using the post itself as there would be few people with access to the information that you posted. The best you could argue is that someone else did it using information provided by you, which marks you as the instigating party. They can also trace the computer where the post originated from.

Korea has a cyber crimes unit that will follow up on a complaint of on-line defamation as you admit to having posted. If you are in Korea, it will be easy to prosecute you.

You have indicated that you think your job is getting better, and if you want to keep working at this job, you should not attack your employer publicly.

Your safest option at the present time is to immediately delete the post.
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Crack Baby



Joined: 30 Dec 2007

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: suspected of a bad hogwon review Reply with quote

..

Last edited by Crack Baby on Sat May 01, 2010 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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whome?



Joined: 13 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this wasn't the best move you could have made, but it's done and so you need to deal with the situation.

1. put a password on your computer right now. A strong one. If you have your email passwords etc set to be remembered, delete that setting. especially if there is some sort of membership info in your email accounts.

2. delete your browsing history. start using a proxy as well eg: proxypass.us

2.1 change whatever browser you use and delete your old one. Make sure you completely wipe it off the HD.

3. never visit whatever site you used again unless you do so from a PC bang.

4. think before you act. this board has all kinds of problems, but it can still be used effectively for understanding what you should do.

5. don't trust the hagwon or the owner to respect you. You now have to watch your back at all turns. Spend money wisely and make sure you have some on hand, because if this does get big they may just fire you.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: suspected of a bad hogwon review Reply with quote

Crack Baby wrote:
ontheway wrote:
planthopps wrote:
I came to a hakwon a few months ago and I wasn't happy with the school. I wasn't happy because of the usual contract violations no health insurance etc. So I wrote an honest review of the school on a website. I warned people about the recruiter which is employed by the school ( I didn't know that when coming to work for them) and the owner.

They have a teacher that has been here for three years and will say anything the owner tells him to say to other teachers interviewing the school overseas. Anyhow I posted it without any personal information and the recruiter is now accusing me of doing so without any solid proof.

He told me tonight," I will give you until Monday to change it before I tell the owner about what you did." My question is what if anything could they do to me if I don't change it online? They have done the usual crapwon routine to other teachers before me, ( 11th month dismissals) but I also know that there is no personal information and it was posted under an alias.

So is he just blowing smoke or should I do something about it? He also is the "foreign teacher supervisor", even though he basically runs his recruiting business from his office at the school and we hardly see him. I got health insurance finally and the job isn't as bad as it was since we got a new location. I also have only worked at this particular school for less than 4 months.



Korea has strong laws against libel and even truthfulness is not always a defense if you hurt the ability of another person or business to earn a living.

You can easily be identified as the poster just by using the post itself as there would be few people with access to the information that you posted. The best you could argue is that someone else did it using information provided by you, which marks you as the instigating party. They can also trace the computer where the post originated from.

Korea has a cyber crimes unit that will follow up on a complaint of on-line defamation as you admit to having posted. If you are in Korea, it will be easy to prosecute you.

You have indicated that you think your job is getting better, and if you want to keep working at this job, you should not attack your employer publicly.

Your safest option at the present time is to immediately delete the post.


Wrong. Any alteration of the post, including deletion, would be tantamount to admitting guilt.

This recruiter is trying to trick you. Saying it would be better for you to change this, when in fact it would be worse. This is equivalent to a police interrogation where they try to get the suspect to confess when, really, they have nothing on the suspect.

The fact is, they can't prove it was you unless you do something incredibly stupid such as change or delete it now.
Deny this to the grave, and nothing bad (legally) will happen.



Don't listen to CB's bad advice.

They already know you made the post.

Denials will mean nothing.

If you don't delete it you will have a horrible working situation and will likely be terminated. Koreans are very emotional and vengeful.

There is a strong likelyhood that you would be pursued legally as well, if you stay in Korea.


You should delete your post ASAP.


You can then deny making it and deny deleting it. This comes out the same, they won't believe you, but they won't have any reason to be angry any longer, so the issue should go away.
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planthopps



Joined: 05 May 2008
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is what I ended up doing. I contacted the webmaster and they deleted it. But still it is sad that this recruiter is able to continue to lie, cheat and steal. I guess all or almost all recruiters do this but an online blacklist is one of the few effective tools we have to prevent the same thing from happening to another person.
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VFRinterceptor



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from this online defamation issue, we should consider the factors that led to the posting in the first place.

I would suggest you contact legal counsel for consultation. Initial consultation is usually free and you walk away with a clear idea of what situation you are in, rather than trust people on Daves.

Nothing wrong with the folks on Daves, but from what it sounds like, I would suggest you get some clarification from a legal professional.

I can recommend someone to you if you PM me.
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sojusucks



Joined: 31 May 2008

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next time, have a friend do it or word it so it sounds like it came from a former employee (EX- "In 2007, the owner cheated me out of severance").
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dirving



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
VanIslander wrote:
just change it



(change it back when you no longer work there)



But wouldn't that just give the recruiter the proof that he did write it?


Urban Myth is right: Do not touch it!
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirving wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
VanIslander wrote:
just change it



(change it back when you no longer work there)



But wouldn't that just give the recruiter the proof that he did write it?


Urban Myth is right: Do not touch it!



Too late though. He's already deleted it. Let's cross our fingers and hope that everything works out for the OP.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be getting out of Dodge right pronto if I were you.

They are not likely to "forgive and forget".
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