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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Please: if you are going to talk about Iraq and WMD get at least a basic sense of the events correct.
When people talk about WMD in Iraq they mean at the time of the start of Gulf War II. Bush claimed that Iraq was in violation of UN Resolutions which called for Iraq to destroy and not make any more WMD. Bush claimed that Iraq had made WMD and would not admit it therefore a coalition of nations would be just to invade Iraq and enforce the UN resolution(s).
Of course, Hussein claimed he did not have any WMD.
Most nations except the UK and South Korea did not agree to join the coalition and the U.S., the U.K. and a few other token forces invaded Iraq.
To date, WMD have not been found in Iraq. This has lead some to believe that Bush was not justified in invading Iraq.
The gassing of the Kurds did not lead to Gulf War I. It was not until Iraq had invaded Kuwait that Bush Sr. put together a vast coalition of nations to re-move Iraq from Kuwait and support Kuwaiti sovereignty.
To a certain extent, the first gassing of the Kurds was not considered an international issue because it is not against international law to have WMD and Iraq at that time was not under UN sanctions for WMD.
Of course, it was a horrible human rights issue. Sadly, human rights issues rarely become important issues unless they have some other political or economic ramifications other than the support of human rights and the improvement of the quality of life. |
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thecount
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
Please: if you are going to talk about Iraq and WMD get at least a basic sense of the events correct.
When people talk about WMD in Iraq they mean at the time of the start of Gulf War II. Bush claimed that Iraq was in violation of UN Resolutions which called for Iraq to destroy and not make any more WMD. Bush claimed that Iraq had made WMD and would not admit it therefore a coalition of nations would be just to invade Iraq and enforce the UN resolution(s).
Of course, Hussein claimed he did not have any WMD.
Most nations except the UK and South Korea did not agree to join the coalition and the U.S., the U.K. and a few other token forces invaded Iraq.
To date, WMD have not been found in Iraq. This has lead some to believe that Bush was not justified in invading Iraq.
The gassing of the Kurds did not lead to Gulf War I. It was not until Iraq had invaded Kuwait that Bush Sr. put together a vast coalition of nations to re-move Iraq from Kuwait and support Kuwaiti sovereignty.
To a certain extent, the first gassing of the Kurds was not considered an international issue because it is not against international law to have WMD and Iraq at that time was not under UN sanctions for WMD.
Of course, it was a horrible human rights issue. Sadly, human rights issues rarely become important issues unless they have some other political or economic ramifications other than the support of human rights and the improvement of the quality of life. |
You seem to be under the impression that you are making a rebuttal.
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"When people talk about WMD in Iraq they mean at the time of the start of Gulf War II." |
Is that so? Because I was quite certain that I was talking about the gassing of the Kurds. Perhaps the my mention of "Kurds" and "Gas" was not enough of a clue. I'll try harder next time.
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"To date, WMD have not been found in Iraq. This has lead some to believe that Bush was not justified in invading Iraq. "
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For someone who states a desire to get "at least a basic sense of the events correct," your sense is indeed VERY basic, and far from "correct."
We saw them make their weapons (Al Hakam, Muthanna, etc).
UNSCOM had to come in and destroy anthrax and botulism factories.
Heck, even while we were in "Gulf War II" we found proof that they had not all been destroyed (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/17/international/middleeast/17CND-SARI.html).
Even more telling is that the artillery shell, tipped with the deadly nerve gas Sarin, was INDISTINGUISHABLE from all the other shells...to the point where the Iraqis using it did not know! This indicates a sophisticated level of deception that has been in place to get weapons past inspectors for over a decade (And it proves you wrong).
| Quote: |
| The gassing of the Kurds did not lead to Gulf War I. |
I never brought up the causality at all.
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To a certain extent, the first gassing of the Kurds was not considered an international issue because it is not against international law to have WMD and Iraq at that time was not under UN sanctions for WMD. |
Not an international issue. Right. Tens of thousands dead, largest chemical weapons attack on civilians in history, no biggie.
As for Iraq not being in violation of international law, it was not HAVING WMDs that made this an issue (hint: tens of thousands dead). It was USING them, which in fact WAS in violation of a NUMBER of international laws.
Iraq was in violation of the Geneva protocol, which it signed (It stated in a signing caveat that it would only respect the treaty with regards to fellow member-states. Since Kuwait also signed, I guess they lied again.)
Iraq was in violation of the international, multilateral and binding 1972 BWC treaty, which it ALSO signed (and violated countless times after).
Keep your misinformation to yourself, pal. You've done nothing but be wrong.
At least you are consistent. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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thecount,
thank you for taking time out to make yourself look petty and silly. |
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tampabulls
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:09 am Post subject: |
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I still say we could have smothered the Nazis with love and they would have stopped being so silly.
<3  |
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thecount
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
thecount,
thank you for taking time out to make yourself look petty and silly. |
"Petty" and "silly" are names people (mostly the group with no other recourse) use to make themselves feel better. I noticed you took time out merely to cast aspersions on my character. That, of course, was in NO WAY petty.
That said, I'd rather be "petty" and right than magnificent and wrong.
If people don't want to be proven to be spouting falsehoods, they should stop being wrong. Don't blame the person using facts. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Obama's speech was, as usual, absolutely platitudinous and statements of the obvious.
Overrated, thy name is Obama.
| tampabulls wrote: |
I still say we could have smothered the Nazis with love and they would have stopped being so silly.
<3 |
Yep. If it wasn't for that Naziphobic bigot Churchill....
| Kuros wrote: |
| You may not be using that 'exception proves the rule' expression right. |
'the exception that proves the rule' is an expression that someone uses when their argument has been demolished by contrary evidence.  |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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From 2007:
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If they want the Nobel Peace Prize to be a Global Celebrity Award for Outstanding Achievements in Political Correctness, they can give the next one to Bono. Or, they can do something meaningful, something that will actually advance the cause of peace and human liberty around the world, and award the Nobel Peace Prize for 2008 to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Other alternatives can be mentioned, too. Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina and Wafa Sultan are all worthy recipients of the Prize for their work and for championing the rights of one of the most abused and oppressed groups of people on the planet: former Muslims who defy the traditional death penalty for leaving Islam.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2755 |
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