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Grammer Nazis, lend me a hand!
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Captain Obvious



Joined: 23 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Grammer Nazis, lend me a hand! Reply with quote

What tenses would you say these three sentences are in?

1. He regretted having been idle in his youth.
2. He regretted that he had been idle in his youth.
2. He regretted being idle in his youth.

A big "Heil!" in advance!
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storysinger81



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simple past. The key verb in all three is "regret."
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Kurtz



Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Location: ples bilong me

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about spelling Nazis? It's grammAr Wink
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I regretted not having studied grammar.

But what my grammar did not see, my grammar did not know.
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Seoul'n'Corea



Joined: 06 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Grammer Nazis, lend me a hand! Reply with quote

Captain Obvious wrote:
What tenses would you say these three sentences are in?

1. He regretted having been idle in his youth.
2. He regretted that he had been idle in his youth.
2. He regretted being idle in his youth.

A big "Heil!" in advance!



I think, formally #1 is correct in written English.
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Grammer Nazis, lend me a hand! Reply with quote

Captain Obvious wrote:
What tenses would you say these three sentences are in?

1. He regretted having been idle in his youth.
2. He regretted that he had been idle in his youth.
2. He regretted being idle in his youth.

A big "Heil!" in advance!


This question is more complicated than it looks.
You have more than one "tense" depending on what part of the sentence you are examining.

For example:
2. He regretted - simple past (independent main clause)
that he had been idle - past perfect - (dependent noun clause.)

They are all correct...just different ways of expressing the information.

Just thought I would put this out there.
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storysinger81



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he asked for the tense of the sentence, not of the dependent clause Smile haha.
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storysinger81 wrote:
he asked for the tense of the sentence, not of the dependent clause Smile haha.


lol...actually...he asked for the tenses of the sentences. Wink

Quote:
What tenses would you say these three sentences are in?


But yes...quite an ambiguous question.
Good to see such lively feedback. Cool
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All three sentences are acceptable and are essentially saying the same thing. The regret part is in the simple past. Regret as a verb can either take the gerund/ing form or a 'that' clause when expressing regret for a past action, so sentences 1 and 2 are identical in meaning with a different structure. They both refer to a past activity that happened before the speaker had cause to regret it. The last sentence uses the present participle which would normally suggest that the speaker still has this problem. e.g. I regret being an idiot - . However, with the addition of 'in my youth' we can see that the speaker is referring to a past activity and is therefore technically using the wrong structure. However this is common and accepted in everyday speech.

By the way I would only consider discussing such differences with a very advanced adult class so I wonder where all the posters get these sorts of questions from. Surely they're not being given to kids as that would be ridiculous
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storysinger81 wrote:
simple past. The key verb in all three is "regret."


+1
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storysinger81 wrote:
he asked for the tense of the sentence, not of the dependent clause Smile haha.


+2
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cosmic Hum wrote:
storysinger81 wrote:
he asked for the tense of the sentence, not of the dependent clause Smile haha.


lol...actually...he asked for the tenses of the sentences. Wink


-1 a sentence only has one tense. +2 for the wink showing that you knew this to be true and this in fact was sarcasm. Net score +1
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-J wrote:
The Cosmic Hum wrote:
storysinger81 wrote:
he asked for the tense of the sentence, not of the dependent clause Smile haha.


lol...actually...he asked for the tenses of the sentences. Wink


-1 a sentence only has one tense. +2 for the wink showing that you knew this to be true and this in fact was sarcasm. Net score +1


Thanks for the input T-J... it is good to see someone is keeping score.
All in good fun. Cool
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storysinger81



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steps up to the mic, blinking back the tears.

I'd like to thank the academy. It was a tough battle, with a worthy opponent. But in the great war of sarcasm waged daily on these forums, it is good to see when truth is rewarded and tongue-in-cheek humor acknowledged.

Laughing [/i]
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-J makes an interesting point about tense.
+1 ...as I know he is having at me for being a grammar knob.

In complex sentences, the argument can be made that the independent clause contains the tense of the sentence, regardless of having many tenses may occur in any dependent clauses that may be attached to it.
+1

However, the same cannot be as easily defended in compound sentences.
It is quite easy to combine any number of tenses in a compound sentence.
But, as I know T-J knows this...once again +1 for being a game player. Cool
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