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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs |
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There was a thread related to this not so long ago - but I can't be bothered to search for it.
Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs
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Israel has admitted that pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others without the consent of their families � a practice that it said ended in the 1990s, it emerged at the weekend.
The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs � a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".
The revelation, in a television documentary, is likely to generate anger in the Arab and Muslim world and reinforce sinister stereotypes of Israel and its attitude to Palestinians. Iran's state-run Press TV tonight reported the story, illustrated with photographs of dead or badly injured Palestinians.
Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab MP, said the report incriminated the Israeli army.
The story emerged in an interview with Dr Yehuda Hiss, former head of the Abu Kabir forensic institute near Tel Aviv. The interview was conducted in 2000 by an American academic who released it because of the row between Israel and Sweden over a report in the Stockholm newspaper Aftonbladet.
Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.
The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."
Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas ... whatever was done was highly informal. No permission was asked from the family." |
To read the full article, click on the link at the top. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| "Harvesting" -- inappropriate, unduly anti-Israeli verb-choice. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs |
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| Quote: |
| Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas..." |
Was he misquoted? |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm pretty sure that 'harvest' is the standard verb used in these cases. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
| i'm pretty sure that 'harvest' is the standard verb used in these cases. |
Yes, it is. We have a situation here where a government was stealing organs from the dead. I have to say, I don't see how a complaint about very basic and correct usage of the term "to harvest" is anything less than an attempt to distract from the actual topic at hand. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| i'm pretty sure that 'harvest' is the standard verb used in these cases. |
Yes, it is. We have a situation here where a government was stealing organs from the dead. I have to say, I don't see how a complaint about very basic and correct usage of the term "to harvest" is anything less than an attempt to distract from the actual topic at hand. |
Well if we are going to be technical then the term should be "harvested" as in the past tense as this practice has not taken place for a decade.
And anyway the title is misleading to say the least as the article clearly states that Israeli soldiers and citizens' organs were also harvested. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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ah...verb tense choice..maybe you have a point.
Although it is a pretty typical newspaper thing. I'm sure I've seen 'X admits verbing crime" when the crime happened some time ago.
BTW i have no problem with harvesting organs..should be standard. |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| "Harvesting" -- inappropriate, unduly anti-Israeli verb-choice. |
Why? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer." |
Congratulations, Israel! You ended this program in the 90s! Way to act like a hideous stereotype and then stop!
Disgusting.
| TUM wrote: |
Well if we are going to be technical then the term should be "harvested" as in the past tense as this practice has not taken place for a decade. |
This is the poster who thought the Israelis struck first in the '06 Lebanon War. You may just have to cut her some slack. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas..." |
Was he misquoted? |
I suspect that, or he has merely internalized the allegations, much like some former American policymakers internalized "destabilize" re: the Chilean affair: it started as an allegation, never appeared in the contempoary documentation. But repeated so many times that some simply accepted it uncricitally.
"The Israeli govt harvested Arab-Palestinian organs?" As in the Turkish film Valley of the Wolves? Not quite the same thing as opportunistically and without permission -- that is, unethically -- taking organs from dead Arab-Palestinians.
"Harvesting" will simply confirm all conspiracy theories by anti-Israeli and antisemitic thinkers and destroy all nuance when coming to terms with this. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
taking organs from dead Arab-Palestinians.
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This is harvesting. It is the standard term for taking organs from dead bodies to be re-used(on this kind of scale). They also harvested organs from dead Israeli soldiers and civilians. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Wrong. "Harvesting" has to do with agriculture and conspiracy theories. This pattern has to do with an Israeli institute taking dead Arab-Palestinians' and others' organs without their consent. I by no means defend this practice. It sounds like something from the X-Files. But you may not go the usual anti-Israeli way and use this as authorization for wild, anti-Israeli, antisemitic conspiracy theories.
The Saidians lambaste Westerners for taking sensational factoids about Arabs and painting the entire culture by them, kind of like what Kuros, for example, just did in his exhortation about Israel, above.
This report, moveover, as it appears here, started off by exceeding the evidence. "...a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs." Where is the evidence that the Israeli state ordered Israeli armed forces to kill Arab Palestinians in order to use their organs? that this represented the primary or even a major motive in the Israeli side to the Arab-Israeli fighting?
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:52 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Wrong. "Harvesting" has to do with agriculture and conspiracy theories.
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I've only ever heard 'harvesting' used in this context. What word should be used?
I'll look for some links. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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If you live in the conspiracy-theorists' world, I am certain that you have often heard of "organ-harvesting."
You should call it something that does not lose this specificity, JMO: "Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested [is that what Abu Kabir called it?] skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives."
Meanwhile, all of my dictionaries show it having to do exclusively with agriculture. But I am certain that you can find anything you want out there in Google land. And I am also sure that you will disregard all that I have said here. Lo que sea. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Meanwhile, all of my dictionaries show it having to do exclusively with agriculture. |
Harvest in verb form means
| Quote: |
6. to gather (a crop or the like); reap.
7. to gather the crop from: to harvest the fields.
8. to gain, win, acquire, or use (a prize, product, or result of any past act, process, plan, etc.).
9. to catch, take, or remove for use: Fishermen harvested hundreds of salmon from the river. |
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harvest
The examples are all agiculture but the actual meaning can obviously be used in this context.
I don't have a horse in the Israeli/Palestine thing. I'm just saying that it is not unusual (indeed standard) to use the word 'harvest' in this case. |
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