Korean Job Discussion Forums

[euphony]

So my first teaching job in Korea starts out great. My apartment is great; I get along with all my co-workers. I�ve been invited to some of their parties (even though they talk in Korean the whole time). The only problem is that the foreign teachers at my hagwon don�t get any respect from the students and aren�t included in the office meetings which are (surprise) all conducted in Korean. There are 5 Korean teachers, me, and another native speaker that absolutely doesn�t care if the kids are actually learning or if he is doing a good job. To get the kids to respect me I want to assign them homework that they will actually do, but as a foreign teacher I am expected to not give them any homework. I tried assigning them homework and they won�t do it because a) the Korean teachers are giving them insane amounts of homework and b) I can�t call and tell their mothers in Korean that they aren�t behaving. The only reason that these elementary students have to listen to me in class is the speaking test, which is only one fifth of their grade and doesn�t happen often enough for them to really care. All I want is for the Korean teachers to let me assign some of the homework that they normally give the students themselves and let me collect it so that the students perceive me as more of a real teacher, but I can�t even bring this up in their office meetings because foreigners aren�t included in them. I asked to be included in the meetings that my director (who is young, and doesn�t hold regular meetings because he knows nothing about teaching, and also doesn�t speak English fluently) holds randomly. He said he would include me in the next meeting but when I talked to the head teacher she said that these meetings were held irregularly and I got the impression that she was just not going to tell me when the next meeting was. If you have any insight into this matter, any cultural info, or constructive advice; I would really like to hear it.

[KoreanAmbition]

I think you're lucky.... you don't have to go to the meetings.

I think possibly the other foreign teacher isn't as much a slacker as you think. In fact, don't be too hard on him, that will be you very soon once the Korean system breaks you.

Why do you think homework is the only reason the students will consider you a real teacher? You've got the chance to not be a homework nazi for the students. You have other options, you can give them assignments in class if you can't give homework. Or maybe you can teach them in more efficient and mature ways that the Korean teachers aren't capable of. I'm sure there are other ways you can gain the respect of the students...

To be honest, your situation doesn't sound too bad, just realize there are is more than one way to skin a cat. We'll see what the others have to say.

[PatrickGHBusan]

Korean ambition I dislike the way in your post you open the door for bad teachers saying they are not all that bad and that they are just broken by the Korean system.

Sure some are discouraged but numerous others are simply and unequivocally bad teachers who care nothing about their students and use Korea and Korean employers as an excuse to justify the poor job they do.

I think from what I read from you that you are smarter than having to resort to this Korea made me do it line...in fact you give me the impression that you are mature and self aware enough to know better...

The rest of your post did provided good advice however.

[KoreanAmbition]

Patrick,

I don't think your comments are justified.


First of all, this OP is totally new here. He didn't really say much about his other teacher, but he assumed he was a bad teacher, and I went the other way to even it out.

When you're not invited to the meetings, that means they don't care about you. And unfortunately, that's all it means. It's not cultural to exclude workers from meetings...

He's not there because his input means nothing. It's sad, and it sounds harsh, but it's true. His hagwon isn't even faking the fact that his input means nothing.

The least they could do is fake it and let him sit in the meeting to feel like a member of the team. But instead, they made it brutally clear what his role is within the organization.

No self-respecting person who cares about their job and cares about their performance can persevere through that. Eventually, it will break you.

Note the smile in my original comments... I was half-joking...only half...but in all honesty, I'd like to hear back from the OP in another 6 months...

[PatrickGHBusan]

Sorry K-ambition..missed that smile. My mistake!

I agree its not smart to rush to judgement on the part of the OP when it comes to his foreign co-worker. However, you have to agree and I am sure you worked with many inept foreign teachers who thought playing bingo was a good lesson and automatically blamed Korea for all their problems....heck that auto-blame the entity response is alive and well here at home.

Not many people understand what introspection is and are able to look at themselves when problems arise....

When you are not invited to meetings it does not automatically mean they do not care about it. At my first hakwon they had meetings that went as follows: first 5 minutes had all the staff (8 foreign teachers, 12 Korean teachers + manager). That part was conducted in English. Then the Foreign staff left and the rest of the meeting was conducted in Korean. This saves time for everyone.

The OP being excluded may be because his co-worker made trouble at meetings..it may be the Korean staff feel he would be bored at such meetings, it may be an expediency issue (not having the meeting in English which may take longer)...my point: it can be many things outside of they do not care about you....

His input as a newbee may also not have much weight but then again...the other teacher (foreign) may have polluted the well with his attitude.

At that same hakwon I mentionned before, we had two teachers before I got there who slacked off. One read the paper in class while he handed out crosswords and the other go through the lesson in 5 minutes and then had the students read on their own....Why would you want these people at a meeting when they gooff off the job? This was a good school where the owner cared about the education aspect of the business....

There are always many sides to a situation...

The OPs school may not care or they may have other reasons....

[KoreanAmbition]

Patrick,

I agree with your comments... the problem is that I'm the type of person that wants to be part of the meetings and wants to contribute.

Also, I don't think it's fair that because the meeting has to be in Korean that the foreigners aren't invited. They all work together...if he's that interested in being part of the program, then it should be encouraged. If the OP decides it's too difficult, then he can stop. But at least give him the choice.

It's proven theory that if you want people to try harder, you should involve them in the decision-making and allow them to contribute ideas.

I agree that probably the "other" teacher in question is probably lazy. And because of that, he has given this OP a tough road to travel down... that's unfortunate and I am sympathetic to the situation of the OP.

However, if everything you've said is true...then the hagwon director/owner/manager should be sitting down with the OP for 2 reasons:

1) To fully explain why he's not going to be part of the meetings.
2) After each meeting to fully explain what he missed and ask if he has any input/comments/suggestions that they can talk about at the next meeting.


Even if there were bad teachers before, they assume that when they hired the OP that he's a good teacher...or else why hire him? In that case, it's not fair to judge him like the other bad teachers they've had.

If anything, they should be treating the OP very well in hopes that he will rise above the performance of the "other" teacher and start to rebuild the foreign component of the hagwon.

[lifeinkorea]

Homework is important, but not for teaching English at school.

So, this is what you do. Divide your class 80:20, or whatever ratio you want. End class "early", but then do the homework. They don't need to do it at home (which they won't), and you can still have them do something.

If the school complains, then you can have your "meeting". Don't go to them, have them come to you. It's much easier this way.

[euphony]

Thanks for all the impute. First of all I am a woman and second of all I should probably clarify my situation a little bit better. The hagwon is only a year old, and the teacher I am replacing was the first teacher at the hagwon. She originally attended the meetings but then according to my native speaking co-worker, she stopped going because they were all conducted in Korean and it was about �boring stuff�. I corresponded with her extensively before I took the position because I knew that taking a job at a new hagwon was risky but decided to do it anyway because it sounded like the conditions were good (and they are, aside from the respect part). As for my native-speaking co-worker: I don�t think he is a bad teacher, I observed one of his classes once, he just complains about how the kids don�t mind him but doesn�t want to do anything to change it. If I try to ask for some real change he won�t back me up.
I am more alarmed by the fact that foreigners aren�t included in the meetings. I don�t think this should be allowed to continue because it is blatantly disrespectful and how can I ask the students to respect me if the other teachers don�t respect me. I am considering just kicking out the misbehaving students from my class and have them disrupt the rest of the hagwon so that I can politely tell my employer that disciplinary problems really should be covered in the teachers meeting. The bottom line is the students have no incentive to listen to me and if I didn�t care about teaching I wouldn�t mind because the apartment/compensation is good, but I actually care about them and want to be a good teacher which is why I am going to make a stink some way or another.

[ThingsComeAround]

Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk

I had to laugh at the notion of "disrespect" and the other teacher.
Not to be mean, but it is funny.

Now about your situation,
Your hagwon is a year old. This can serve as good things for you, as they don't know what to do with you yet. You mentioned that the last teacher stopped going because it was about "boring stuff". You'd be surprised what the locals view as critical. This could be the next staff dinner, or having a contest, what have you. Being from the hagwon system, I can sympathize with your situation. Classroom management will never be addressed, because Korean teachers can't (or wont) discipline them at all either. Surprised? You shouldn't be. Some teachers still go around twisting ears or pinching, stomping their feet and yelling. They can't and won't tell the mothers that their child is bad/misbehaving

I have had a class full of ruffians, when I asked how I can discipline them, they told me to put the offender outside of class. I did that, and they disturbed the Korean teachers. Then I got in trouble again. I asked for help on dealing with students, the only way (they think) is to get physical. I don't hit kids. Not my style. I grasp the feeling that isn't your style either.

You could set the class up where you make a "deal" with them. 80% work time and 20% game time if they are good. If that doesn't work, have them sit with hands on their heads. Or offer candy as a reward.

The issue with hagwons is that kids don't view them as "school", rather a place to play and meet their friends. Their parents are the ones that see it as an "investment" (babysitting) and your employers don't care (also true) they just want the moms to keep sending the babes and keep paying up so they can have more meetings about dinner parties and contests.

[BoholDiver]

I would rather be discluded from meetings where my voice won't be heard, rather than be included and not be heard. It gives me more free time.

[Tycho Brahe]

not all hagwons are as bad as that....


op,
the homework route might work, but even in a school where i can discipline the kids, only certain classes will bother. the rest are either in under too much pressure as it is or don't care what I do.

rewards are the best way to go.

but really you are going to have to find another way to get the kids to respect you. it seems almost cruel to want to add more homework to overworked kids for the sake or respect.

[blackjack]

If you are having discipline problems, giving homework is not going to change anything.

This works

[Dodgy Al]

newbie arrogance. don't ya just love it. merry christmas...

[euphony]

I don�t want to give them extra homework at all. I agree, it is too cruel and unneeded. I just want the Korean teachers to give me some of the homework they would normally assign the students and have me assign it. Also I�m really not trying to be arrogant. I am just new and trying to figure out what the heck is going on. Yes, hitting the students is not my style.
The real problem is that the hagwon absolutely doesn�t know what to do with me. They have a homeroom teacher and a switch teacher which both work out of the same books that I do, which means that by the time the students come to my class they have done the lesson and all of the workbook exercises and everything is review. Consequently they start acting up because they are bored. So what do I do? I am considering just buying some storybooks and making my own exercise worksheets because trying to get the system changed doesn�t seem to be that feasible. But seriously, I�m posting here because I�m new and I don�t yet understand everything.

[Tycho Brahe]

from what I've heard my boss is one of the nicest women working in a hagwon, and even she would not allow me to bring in new work material.

what you have to do is sit down with the other teachers and make a plan.
you're hear to teach conversation, and maybe writing skills, so odds are that the school want you to assess and improve specific skills involving the material already covered by the other teachers.

so maybe start thinking up work exercises, presentations and games based off the work already covered, as well as revising things.

Or work out a system with other teachers wherein some of the correcting responsibilities fall on you.

In my school the grammar and writing teacher helps the kids to write up diaries and book reports. Which the kids then have to give to me for extra thorough correcting. I think its one of the best aspects of the work they do here.

What you're really looking for though is a little support and clarification. And in most hagwons you're not going to get that. I think thats the hardest thing about this job.