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DosEquisXX
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: Is teaching in South Korea worth it anymore? |
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I was just scanning through the 2010 EPIK contract and saw a lot of the changes that were made compared to the 2009 contract. It appears that most of the changes were done to increase the rights and authority of the employer and education office while screwing over the employee. I look at how my situation went from pretty good to pretty crappy. I see my friends getting screwed over by closing hagwons and fired for not being a couple. One person got fired for being fat.
Many of us are already here or were here and are now gone. But there are people who are considering coming here for the first time. Like me, they may be living in a foreign country for the first time in their lives. In the past, we would be telling everybody how great it is. However, we see more and more instances where people are being mistreated and outright screwed.
If a person of minimal teaching and traveling experience approached you for your opinion of teaching in South Korea, what things would you tell him/her? |
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Olivencia
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly what you previously said...getting fired for being fat. Incredible  |
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DosEquisXX
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Olivencia wrote: |
| Exactly what you previously said...getting fired for being fat. Incredible |
To be fair, this person was not just your standard overweight person. I am your standard overweight person (by about 4 pounds). This person was morbidly obese.
That doesn't make it an acceptable reason to fire the teacher. Just saying that it wasn't a few pounds here and there. |
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noobteacher
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| These instances that you talk about, are these that happened in hagwons? Or hagwons and PSs? I understand that EPIK has made some changes to its contracts, but are the changes really all that bad? In general though, I am interested in hearing people's thoughts as I am a noobie who is looking to start teaching in Korea in March. |
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zipper
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Location: Ruben Carter was falsely accused
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Is teaching in South Korea worth it anymore? |
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| superuberbob wrote: |
| what things would you tell him/her? |
You should have been here 15 years ago, before the age of the internet... |
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Olivencia
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Was this person obese when hired or did this person become obese/more obese? |
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DosEquisXX
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| noobteacher wrote: |
| These instances that you talk about, are these that happened in hagwons? Or hagwons and PSs? I understand that EPIK has made some changes to its contracts, but are the changes really all that bad? In general though, I am interested in hearing people's thoughts as I am a noobie who is looking to start teaching in Korea in March. |
Most of these problems do occur in hagwons. But PSs are not as great as they used to be.
Some things I picked up in the 2010 EPIK (not GEPIK) contract:
-3 less vacation days (18 rather than 21)
-Hours of time missed due to tardiness, early departures or other absences are deducted from your paid vacation days for every 8 hours
-After 3 (consecutive or non-consecutive) sick days, future sick days require doctor's notice
-Special leave (death in family, marriage, maternity) now requires employer consent
-Duties changed to include English camps and after school classes
-Can be made to work holidays and/or weekends if a temporary English program you are participating in is running during that time. Will be paid OT for it.
-A broadly defined dress code has been included in the contract
-Required to attend a training orientation before and during your contract
-A bonus can be given to a teacher who has made great contributions to the employer and the school
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When my father died this year I called my co-teachers, bought the next ticket to JFK and left the day I heard about it. Now, an employer can actually refuse to allow you to go to a close family member's funeral?
Although you are not supposed to work weekends and holidays, an employer can make you if a temporary English program is running during those days.
It's just that none of these changes are good for the employee. They're either inconsequential or in favor of the employer. It's only going to get worse from here out. They can reduce the benefits of the deal and still get people piling in to work.
| Olivencia wrote: |
| Was this person obese when hired or did this person become obese/more obese? |
No. |
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zipper
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Location: Ruben Carter was falsely accused
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| noobteacher wrote: |
| These instances that you talk about, are these that happened in hagwons? Or hagwons and PSs? I understand that EPIK has made some changes to its contracts, but are the changes really all that bad? In general though, I am interested in hearing people's thoughts as I am a noobie who is looking to start teaching in Korea in March. |
I think that basically the new contract stresses winter and summer camp BS, and that we are absolutely required to come in and either seat warm or do extra work for 20 hours each week during winter and summer school vacation; plus the pesty administration things that the other poster has pointed out.
I have noticed one change in it that stated that the actual contract doesn�t start until the first day of actually teaching in which I used it against them after having signed it, I declined the job after seeing how poor the apartment was along with other lousy conditions such as having to get up at 6 AM for a 9:20 class; because the Korean teachers felt uncomfortable about giving the foreign teacher a ride from the apartment to the other schools.
It is not only the contract that turns me off, but also the increased paper work as well.
Last edited by zipper on Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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the ireland
Joined: 11 May 2008
Location: korea
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Olivencia wrote: |
| Was this person obese when hired or did this person become obese/more obese? |
Brilliant  |
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noobteacher
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmm, well, not to sound like an ass but other than the employer consent for special leave (which is actually pretty standard in the "real world") it just sounds like people are being big whiners. The changes are just moving toward the end of a real, professional job instead of the gravy train people used to be able to take advantage of, which is probably why the changes are being made in the first place (people abusing sick leave, etc.). I really don't think these are anything for people to get their panties in a bunch over, but I understand where the "older" teachers might not like it so much. Still sounds like a pretty decent deal to me. |
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DosEquisXX
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| the ireland wrote: |
| Olivencia wrote: |
| Was this person obese when hired or did this person become obese/more obese? |
Brilliant |
Sorry. Person was obese when hired.
Read the question a bit too quickly. |
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zipper
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Location: Ruben Carter was falsely accused
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| noobteacher wrote: |
| Hmmm, well, not to sound like an ass but other than the employer consent for special leave (which is actually pretty standard in the "real world") it just sounds like people are being big whiners. The changes are just moving toward the end of a real, professional job instead of the gravy train people used to be able to take advantage of, which is probably why the changes are being made in the first place (people abusing sick leave, etc.). I really don't think these are anything for people to get their panties in a bunch over, but I understand where the "older" teachers might not like it so much. Still sounds like a pretty decent deal to me. |
One difference from professional Western jobs is the cross cultural stress that many teachers experience here in Korea; including racism, back stabbing co teachers, language barriers etc. Asia isn�t America or the West. Things are done differently out here in a much more informal manner, and Koreans are imposing more paper work on foreigner teachers; probably because of the flood of economic refugees and people like you that are so eager to take the job due to your ethnocentric view of how things run in the West.  |
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DosEquisXX
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| zipper wrote: |
| noobteacher wrote: |
| Hmmm, well, not to sound like an ass but other than the employer consent for special leave (which is actually pretty standard in the "real world") it just sounds like people are being big whiners. The changes are just moving toward the end of a real, professional job instead of the gravy train people used to be able to take advantage of, which is probably why the changes are being made in the first place (people abusing sick leave, etc.). I really don't think these are anything for people to get their panties in a bunch over, but I understand where the "older" teachers might not like it so much. Still sounds like a pretty decent deal to me. |
One difference from professional Western jobs is the cross cultural stress that many teachers experience here in Korea; including racism, back stabbing co teachers, language barriers etc. Asia isn�t America or the West. Things are done differently out here in a much more informal manner, and Koreans are imposing more paper work on foreigner teachers; probably because of the flood of economic refugees and people like you that are so eager to take the job due to your ethnocentric view of how things run in the West. |
Exactly!
No way I could survive this place without bilingual friends.
I would also like to add on that there really aren't any discrimination laws here, especially when it comes to dealing with foreigners. So, you can be fired for being black, fat, Jewish or whatever other attribute you could have that does not fall in line with Koreans. You could be the greatest teacher in the world but if you're fat, black and Jewish you're gonna get screwed one way or another.
If there were discrimination laws, they'd be treated the same way a Korean cab driver treats traffic laws. |
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kimchi girl
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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This is an excellent topic and potential very valuable.
As for my take, it depends on perspective. For those who worked under the old PS contracts things have gone down hill fast. I don't know if I would stay in those circumstances. In a year at a middle school I came to an extra-contractual agreement, but had it put in writing, which gave me all kinds of extra time off. Things like that can't happen anymore. And I know of at least one person who signed something similar when they renewed and has now had it thrown out.
So if you were here before all these retarded policy changes, things by comparison are a lot worse. But if you're coming into it for the first time, it might seem ok.
But what I have been pointing out/arguing is that things are getting worse and there is no sign or reason to think things wont continue to get worse. And that's the big issue, I think. The number of people working at multiple schools, dropping vacation time, more and more restrictions within the contract, more and more restrictions to even get a visa etc, combined with the general attitude that seems to be taking hold in the media and on this board, things aren't looking good.
Compared to other places, Korea is still pretty good. Free plane ticket, free housing, lower taxes mean there's money to be made. So people will start to come. But the quality of teachers with continually degrading conditions that will come and stay here will drop. And for a nation obsessed with being number 1, they should really think about that. Korea is renowned for bad policy, and the ongoing tumult in the ESL industry is just another example. |
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noobteacher
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| zipper wrote: |
| noobteacher wrote: |
| Hmmm, well, not to sound like an ass but other than the employer consent for special leave (which is actually pretty standard in the "real world") it just sounds like people are being big whiners. The changes are just moving toward the end of a real, professional job instead of the gravy train people used to be able to take advantage of, which is probably why the changes are being made in the first place (people abusing sick leave, etc.). I really don't think these are anything for people to get their panties in a bunch over, but I understand where the "older" teachers might not like it so much. Still sounds like a pretty decent deal to me. |
One difference from professional Western jobs is the cross cultural stress that many teachers experience here in Korea; including racism, back stabbing co teachers, language barriers etc. Asia isn�t America or the West. Things are done differently out here in a much more informal manner, and Koreans are imposing more paper work on foreigner teachers; probably because of the flood of economic refugees and people like you that are so eager to take the job due to your ethnocentric view of how things run in the West. |
Well, first off, you have no idea what my experiences have been nor the reason that I am interested in working in Korea, so you can take your self-righteousness somewhere else. Second, from all of the reading, research, etc. that I've done, I am fully aware of the "different world" it is over there (although I will concede that it is not a first-hand experience yet). But third, is having tardiness deducted from your pay and having to wear decent clothes to school instead of dressing like a slob really enough to make you want to leave or make people reconsider working in Korea? That just seems silly to me. |
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