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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: For Greens, Hara-kiri is the only option |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=1
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Sorry, Vegans: Brussels Sprouts Like to Live, Too
But before we cede the entire moral penthouse to �committed vegetarians� and �strong ethical vegans,� we might consider that plants no more aspire to being stir-fried in a wok than a hog aspires to being peppercorn-studded in my Christmas clay pot. This is not meant as a trite argument or a chuckled aside. Plants are lively and seek to keep it that way. The more that scientists learn about the complexity of plants � their keen sensitivity to the environment, the speed with which they react to changes in the environment, and the extraordinary number of tricks that plants will rally to fight off attackers and solicit help from afar � the more impressed researchers become, and the less easily we can dismiss plants as so much fiberfill backdrop, passive sunlight collectors on which deer, antelope and vegans can conveniently graze. It�s time for a green revolution, a reseeding of our stubborn animal minds.
When plant biologists speak of their subjects, they use active verbs and vivid images. Plants �forage� for resources like light and soil nutrients and �anticipate� rough spots and opportunities. By analyzing the ratio of red light and far red light falling on their leaves, for example, they can sense the presence of other chlorophyllated competitors nearby and try to grow the other way. Their roots ride the underground �rhizosphere� and engage in cross-cultural and microbial trade.
�Plants are not static or silly,� said Monika Hilker of the Institute of Biology at the Free University of Berlin. �They respond to tactile cues, they recognize different wavelengths of light, they listen to chemical signals, they can even talk� through chemical signals. Touch, sight, hearing, speech. �These are sensory modalities and abilities we normally think of as only being in animals,� Dr. Hilker said.
Plants can�t run away from a threat but they can stand their ground. �They are very good at avoiding getting eaten,� said Linda Walling of the University of California, Riverside. �It�s an unusual situation where insects can overcome those defenses.� At the smallest nip to its leaves, specialized cells on the plant�s surface release chemicals to irritate the predator or sticky goo to entrap it. Genes in the plant�s DNA are activated to wage systemwide chemical warfare, the plant�s version of an immune response. We need terpenes, alkaloids, phenolics � let�s move.
�I�m amazed at how fast some of these things happen,� said Consuelo M. De Moraes of Pennsylvania State University. Dr. De Moraes and her colleagues did labeling experiments to clock a plant�s systemic response time and found that, in less than 20 minutes from the moment the caterpillar had begun feeding on its leaves, the plant had plucked carbon from the air and forged defensive compounds from scratch.
Just because we humans can�t hear them doesn�t mean plants don�t howl. Some of the compounds that plants generate in response to insect mastication � their feedback, you might say � are volatile chemicals that serve as cries for help. Such airborne alarm calls have been shown to attract both large predatory insects like dragon flies, which delight in caterpillar meat, and tiny parasitic insects, which can infect a caterpillar and destroy it from within.
Enemies of the plant�s enemies are not the only ones to tune into the emergency broadcast. �Some of these cues, some of these volatiles that are released when a focal plant is damaged,� said Richard Karban of the University of California, Davis, �cause other plants of the same species, or even of another species, to likewise become more resistant to herbivores.�
Yes, it�s best to nip trouble in the bud.
Dr. Hilker and her colleagues, as well as other research teams, have found that certain plants can sense when insect eggs have been deposited on their leaves and will act immediately to rid themselves of the incubating menace. They may sprout carpets of tumorlike neoplasms to knock the eggs off, or secrete ovicides to kill them, or sound the S O S. Reporting in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Dr. Hilker and her coworkers determined that when a female cabbage butterfly lays her eggs on a brussels sprout plant and attaches her treasures to the leaves with tiny dabs of glue, the vigilant vegetable detects the presence of a simple additive in the glue, benzyl cyanide. Cued by the additive, the plant swiftly alters the chemistry of its leaf surface to beckon female parasitic wasps. Spying the anchored bounty, the female wasps in turn inject their eggs inside, the gestating wasps feed on the gestating butterflies, and the plant�s problem is solved.
Here�s the lurid Edgar Allan Poetry of it: that benzyl cyanide tip-off had been donated to the female butterfly by the male during mating. �It�s an anti-aphrodisiac pheromone, so that the female wouldn�t mate anymore,� Dr. Hilker said. �The male is trying to ensure his paternity, but he ends up endangering his own offspring.�
Plants eavesdrop on one another benignly and malignly. As they described in Science and other journals, Dr. De Moraes and her colleagues have discovered that seedlings of the dodder plant, a parasitic weed related to morning glory, can detect volatile chemicals released by potential host plants like the tomato. The young dodder then grows inexorably toward the host, until it can encircle the victim�s stem and begin sucking the life phloem right out of it. The parasite can even distinguish between the scents of healthier and weaker tomato plants and then head for the hale one.
�Even if you have quite a bit of knowledge about plants,� Dr. De Moraes said, �it�s still surprising to see how sophisticated they can be.�
It�s a small daily tragedy that we animals must kill to stay alive. Plants are the ethical autotrophs here, the ones that wrest their meals from the sun. Don�t expect them to boast: they�re too busy fighting to survive. |
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rocket_scientist
Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Location: Prague
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| So it looks like vegans need to eat dirt and *hit to actually achieve the morality they aspire to. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| While it's fun to get shots in on vegetarians, it's pure sophistry when people try to confuse the intuitively obvious difference between plants and animals. The article admits as much. BTW, vegetarians are weaklings. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Koveras wrote: |
| BTW, vegetarians are weaklings. |
I almost fell into the trap of posting pictures of buff vegetarians, but a quick google search will show this statement is preposterous.
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| Just because we humans can�t hear them doesn�t mean plants don�t howl. Some of the compounds that plants generate in response to insect mastication � their feedback, you might say � are volatile chemicals that serve as cries for help. Such airborne alarm calls have been shown to attract both large predatory insects like dragon flies, which delight in caterpillar meat, and tiny parasitic insects, which can infect a caterpillar and destroy it from within. |
But plants don't feel pain. You could program a robot to emit feedback and produce 'volatile chemicals that serve as cries for help.' All we have here is a pathetic attempt to use descriptive adjectives to construct sentience where there is none.
Ridicule the animal activists, but many feel sentience, the ability to feel pleasure and pain, is what entitles animals to some sort of limited rights. Plants don't feel pain and are far from being self-conscious. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| BTW, vegetarians are weaklings. |
I almost fell into the trap of posting pictures of buff vegetarians, but a quick google search will show this statement is preposterous.
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They probably grew up eating meat. 'That's my story and I'm sticking to it.' |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Animals taste good. So do plants. I'll eat whichever hits the plate.
No matter which screams when I butcher it.
I don't wonder that vegetarian societies never made the annals of modern human history.
So saith the Dog. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe it has been established that if humans had evolved as vegetarians our brains would be about only a third the size of what we have today. |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| I believe it has been established that if humans had evolved as vegetarians our brains would be about only a third the size of what we have today. |
Meat. It's what's for dinner. |
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| �They are very good at avoiding getting eaten,� said Linda Walling of the University of California, Riverside. |
Based on the number of plants that I see eaten every single day, I'm going to have to call bull$hit on this statement. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
| caniff wrote: |
| I believe it has been established that if humans had evolved as vegetarians our brains would be about only a third the size of what we have today. |
Meat. It's what's for dinner. |
I'd love to see the study that confirmed a counter-factual.
*waits patiently for a link* |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:37 am Post subject: |
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In one of those sociobiology books that came out in the '80's the author made the claim that tigers developed intelligence in order to sneak up on cows but cows did not have to develop intelligence in order to sneak up on blades of grass.
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| *waits patiently for a link* |
A-hmm. Is all human knowledge now on the internet? I will admit this is a step up from the old days when "It's true! I saw it on TV" was the mantra of the sophomores of the world. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| Many plants have adapted so that they need to be eaten as part of their life cycle. Eat a tomato and take a dump in the garden. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: |
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http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-4a.shtml
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To summarize:
The significance of Leonard and Robertson's research [1992, 1994] lies in their analysis of energy metabolism, which reveals the paradox: How do humans meet the dramatically higher energy needs of our brains, without a corresponding increase in RMR (which is related to our body size)? They argue that the factor that allows us to overcome the paradox is our higher-quality diet compared to other primates. Of course, prior to the advent of agriculture and the availability of grains, the primary source of such increased dietary quality was the consumption of fauna--animal foods, including insects. |
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guava
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
I don't wonder that vegetarian societies never made the annals of modern human history.
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Which societies are or were vegetarian societies? Could you elaborate on that? |
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