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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Breaking...
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DETROIT - A second Nigerian man was been taken into custody aboard a jetliner in Detroit after locking himself in the airliner's bathroom, The Associated Press reported.
A law enforcement official told the AP that the incident took place aboard the same Northwest flight that was attacked on Christmas Day. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the incident was ongoing.
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Adventurer, I see your point. How does a free society, a democratic society, deal with a backward, medieval ideology that is hell bent on its destruction? This is a huge question for which I don't have any answers.
I do know, however, that on a practical level, in the right here and now, we have to protect ourselves.
So, what do we know for sure? We know that this medieval, backward ideology that hates everything that the west stands for is attacking us through its followers. This ideology is owned by a certain religion that will remain un-named on this board. This religious group is attacking us world wide. From Russia to Xingjiang Province to Detroit. Everywhere.
On one level we must defend and promote western values. We must glorify our success. We must promote our values. We must win the propaganda war. On anothe level we must take practical steps to reduce our casualties.
Brave people are doing this in Iran as I write this. Protesters are risking their lives in the fight for our values. The leader of the western world, Obama, the American president, is remaining silent. He is not supporting, through his words or actions, people who are putting their lives on the line in the name of western freedom. He is not supporting those who are challenging the backward Islamist agenda in Iran. Why is this? |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
I have a friend who has been in the US for 16 years. |
You do!?! OMG, that changes everything!
"Adventurer says they're cool, folks. Let 'em on in...." |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Brave people are doing this in Iran as I write this. Protesters are risking their lives in the fight for our values. The leader of the western world, Obama, the American president, is remaining silent. He is not supporting, through his words or actions, people who are putting their lives on the line in the name of western freedom. He is not supporting those who are challenging the backward Islamist agenda in Iran. Why is this? |
Perhaps you missed this:
Statement by National Security Council Spokesman Mike Hammer on violence in Iran
We strongly condemn the violent and unjust suppression of civilians in Iran seeking to exercise their universal rights. Hope and history are on the side of those who peacefully seek their universal rights, and so is the United States. Governing through fear and violence is never just, and as President Obama said in Oslo - it is telling when governments fear the aspirations of their own people more than the power of any other nation. |
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| When is it going to be ok for us to get racist about this and ban anybody who looks, acts, or has a name that sounds arabic? Or muslim. Or what the hell ever. I don't care if it means Kareem Abdul Jabar has to stay at home now. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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How about we (a) stop the security theater at airports and get down to smart security and (b) accept that there will be occasional terrorist attacks when we travel?
| TSA gadfly Schneier wrote: |
| Only two [post-Sept 11th innovations] have made flying safer: the reinforcement of cockpit doors, and the fact that passengers know now to resist hijackers |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| How about we (a) stop the security theater at airports and get down to smart security and (b) accept that there will be occasional terrorist attacks when we travel? |
Exactly. Most of the US population already believes that he who lives by the sword dies by the sword, so we need to stop acting surprised and emotional about revenge attacks when they happen. If we don't have the stomach for it or can't keep a stiff upper lip, then it's time to end the wars immediately. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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I think you might find that living and dying by the sword refers only to parties directly involved.
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For instance the proverb could be used to describe a person who regularly drives under the influence and is ultimately killed in a vehicle accident caused by another's intoxicated driving. A deeper meaning alludes to "those who judge will be judged" in reference to Matthew 7:2 and Luke 6:37 which can also be interpreted as poetic justice for those observed to be wrongfully condemning others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_by_the_sword,_die_by_the_sword |
Civilians traveling on an airplane who through no fault of their own happen to belong to a particular group are hardly equivalent. Clearly, you're content with an absolutely simpleminded moral equivalence and primitive ideas of vigilante retribution dished out haphazardly.
| Reggie wrote: |
| it's time to end the wars immediately |
And the Shi'ite pilgrims killed by Sunni Islamic terrorists in Iraq and Pakistan this week - what wars should they end? |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
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I don't care about Shiite pilgrims or Sunni terrorists in Iraq or Pakistan. As an American, my concern is with our affairs, not theirs. If Iraqis or Pakistanis want to kill each other, it means as little to me as tribes in Africa fighting one another.
We're smart enough to recognize that the aggressive behavior of the leadership in Gaza causes Israeli revenge attacks resulting in the deaths of Palestinian civilians and soldiers. Yet, we're too stupid to recognize that the aggressive behavior of our own government causes revenge attacks on American civilians and soldiers. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mateomiguel wrote: |
| When is it going to be ok for us to get racist about this and ban anybody who looks, acts, or has a name that sounds arabic? Or muslim. Or what the hell ever. I don't care if it means Kareem Abdul Jabar has to stay at home now. |
Or Obama.
Let's ban all Nigerians, anyone looking black, and who was that white guy who turned up in Iraq. Let's ban them too! And the Chinese, I can't tell an Uighur from a normal Chinaman, so let's ban them. Oh, and let's ban all Muslim airlines. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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let's just ban one-sixth of the world's people.
and then when a non-muslim does it, maybe we can go up to a third! |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| mateomiguel wrote: |
| When is it going to be ok for us to get racist about this and ban anybody who looks, acts, or has a name that sounds arabic? Or muslim. Or what the hell ever. I don't care if it means Kareem Abdul Jabar has to stay at home now. |
Or Obama.
Let's ban all Nigerians, anyone looking black, and who was that white guy who turned up in Iraq. Let's ban them too! And the Chinese, I can't tell an Uighur from a normal Chinaman, so let's ban them. Oh, and let's ban all Muslim airlines. |
Do you think it is wise for airport security to target those most likely to commit terrorist atrocities, or should we stick to the 'colour blind' approach? Last time I went through Heathrow, the authorities (many of whom are Allah merchants themselves, which raises more questions about security) were thoroughly searching a rather rotund, middle-aged white woman, while various bearded religion of peace devotees marched through without any trouble. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| When is it going to be ok for us to get racist about this and ban anybody who looks, acts, or has a name that sounds arabic? Or muslim. Or what the hell ever. I don't care if it means Kareem Abdul Jabar has to stay at home now. |
I suppose that would entail, among other things, the Americans phoning up the Saudis and telling them that none of their citizens will ever be able to get on a plane again. And then asking the Saudis if it's still okay for Americans to fly in to Saudi Arabia to help extract oil for American consumption. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Turns out the guy studied at the same language school in Yemen as I did. I was there about a year before him. The director of the school has been questioned by Yemeni authorities the last 2 days. Kinda strange having only 2 degrees of seperation between me and an alleged terrorist.
BBC article |
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Marc Ravalomanana
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| mateomiguel wrote: |
| When is it going to be ok for us to get racist about this and ban anybody who looks, acts, or has a name that sounds arabic? Or muslim. Or what the hell ever. I don't care if it means Kareem Abdul Jabar has to stay at home now. |
Or Obama. |
A name like Barrack Hussein Obama should definitely set off alarm bells, yes. At least in airports and visa offices.
Not a comment on the prez, mind you. Just on the kind of name he's got. |
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