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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| .. then it should also be applied towards South Africans as English is not their first language either. |
There are quite a number for whom English is their first language. |
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Dude Ranch
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| I have a feeling that there is going to be an Indian version of Dave's in the future. I can just see this happening. It will be quite interesting to hear their opinions about experiences here. Can't wait. |
Derka derka |
Binder's ESL Cafe 
ps. English is the official language of India (along with Hindi) |
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ytuque
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dude Ranch wrote: |
| djsmnc wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| I have a feeling that there is going to be an Indian version of Dave's in the future. I can just see this happening. It will be quite interesting to hear their opinions about experiences here. Can't wait. |
Derka derka |
Binder's ESL Cafe
ps. English is the official language of India (along with Hindi) |
English may be an official language in India, but it's not for the vast majority of Indians their first language. |
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zipper
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Location: Ruben Carter was falsely accused
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| skim234 wrote: |
| Of course, Koreans toe the line of racism, but in this case, it's common sense to hire the cheapest worker. Historically and statisically speaking, cheap workers=immigrants. In Korea, you see hot girls who work at Burger King who probably make more money than a hispanic working illegally at a Burger King in Texas. That hispanic will be hired of a white guy because the hispanic is ok with making below minimum wage. Is that racist hiring? |
No, that is called exploitation.
To find out if it is truly racism, you would have to take a white face from a poor Eastern European country and compare how they would do against a non-white face from say America, and pass their applications to the same Korean Employers; providing that they both speak fluent English. Did I say that all white Americans can speak fluent English? Certainly not. So you could even experiment with comparing a white from a developing country to a white from a developed country. I bet you that it would not make a difference, because both are white; but it would make a difference if one accepted a lower wage than the other. So yes, economics plays a role as does racism. How about economic racism? Just thought that I would coin that one up. |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| zipper wrote: |
| nourozi wrote: |
I think it is quite obvious that they are not paying anyone less based on their sking color. The fact is, you can pay indians half of what we earn and they will still be making good money relative to us. They can go back home having saved up a considerable amount of money. Think about it. It's not racism, it's just business.
They want to cut down the costs of English education and they have found a "solution". I personally don't think it's a good way to cut the costs of English education but that's not the point of this post.
Indians will be happy to come for less and Koreans will be happy to save money. I think some of you are scared because others are willing to accept a lower pay grade to "do the same job". |
Do you think that any self respecting and dignified Indian teacher would accept this view of economics? I would expect at the very least that they would want to be treated equally on a pay scale regardless of where they come from. There are upper class Indians that experience a cost of living comparable to that of people in the West and in South Korea. I don�t think that the South African economy is as robust as the US or the UK. |
I agree with this. Remember people, they aren't hiring young guys fresh out of university.
They want qualified, certified teachers. |
exactly. in addition, another poster mentioned that those indians with these qualifications are most likely going to be middle or upper class. if the korean government thinks they're going to be able to hire cheap, certified teachers from india, they have clearly not thought things through. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ldh2222 wrote: |
| ytuque wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
It's completely unfair to pay someone less based on their skin color.
We don't pay South Africans less than Canadians at our school. We don't pay Americans more than Brits. Everyone follows the same pay scale.
There should be no discrimination in pay. To pay someone less because of their skin color is 100% pure racism. |
They are not receiving lower pay based upon their skin color! It's based on who is considered a native speaker of English by the Korean government. |
Bingo. |
So by this, the Korean gov't is not interested in the quality of their teaching, their accent, or ability... only in how little they can be paid?
(actually, I know you to be correct).
The humor in all of this is that Korean parents will flock to hagwons or privates so that they can have their kids taught by someone from North America, for example. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Remember this? GEPIK first tried to hire them as snack bar workers.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=118237&highlight=india
Korean education officials are going to first judge their English speaking skills before offering them employment? Based on what? 
It'll probably be the same situation we had with that big wave of South Africans a few years ago. Some will be overqualified while many will be, well, let's not go there. But most of them will have sharp accents.
Oh, and no one should want Indian teachers to make less money than the rest of us. That deflates everyone's salary. You should want Indian teachers to make the same salaries as everyone else because, eventually, that should increase our value to parents and increase salaries.  |
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yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Oh well. Everything's going downhill. Gives them something to complain about and in the end, they can point the finger and feel better about themselves.
Isn't that the goal? |
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Manuel_the_Bandito
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I have complete faith in the Korean government to bugger this up entirely. Binder's ESL Cafe should make for interesting reading indeed. |
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Sadebugo1
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Indian teachers in Korea- worth-less |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
I found this article disgusting
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/12/117_58157.html
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``It would be tough for Indian teachers to compete with other native English speaking teachers, unless they take lower salaries,'' he added. |
and later they report
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The ministry is currently discussing the wage issue with the Indian embassy here. The embassy says the ministry has assured it that the terms would be "comparable'' to what is presently offered to other teachers. |
What exactly is "comparable" if you know its not the same?
Because the GDP is lower than that of the E-7 nations?
Because the Rupee is worth less than the pound? |
I think another issue that will cause problems is whether or not your average Korean parent will accept what they perceive as a non-native speaker teaching English to their kids. I think they would feel that Korean teachers would be just as good as Indian teachers.
What do you think about this?
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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zipper
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Location: Ruben Carter was falsely accused
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Indian teachers in Korea- worth-less |
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| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
I think another issue that will cause problems is whether or not your average Korean parent will accept what they perceive as a non-native speaker teaching English to their kids. I think they would feel that Korean teachers would be just as good as Indian teachers.
What do you think about this?
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
I think that you have a valid point. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| I don't know...koreans learning English from an Indian teacher...I can just imagine the accent! Understanding Indians who speak English is difficult with their accent as it is....combining the two?!?! Konglish, blacklish, germanlish, now Indinalish! |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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The article the op posted is contradictory at best.
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Education authorities have been struggling to determine ``reasonable wages'' for Indian English teachers, who will be assigned to schools in September.
...
Officials at the city and provincial education offices, which are in charge of hiring native English speakers, formed a consensus that they might not give Indian English teachers the same wages given to other native speaking teachers.
Kong Soon-taek, supervisor of the South Chungcheong Provincial Official of Education, said ``It is true that many Korean parents are unfamiliar with Indian teachers.''
``It would be tough for Indian teachers to compete with other native English speaking teachers, unless they take lower salaries,'' he added.
...
The embassy says the ministry has assured it that the terms would be ``comparable'' to what is presently offered to other teachers.
``Indian teachers are competent and qualified and will do a good job of teaching English. Koreans can understand the real quality of Indian teachers during the pilot project next year,'' an embassy official said. |
So let me get this right. Koreans have screwed over the whities, and the non-whites from South Africa. Now they will start in on Indians.
I find it inline with Korea to promise comparable pay but then to pay far less. The article even justifies lower pay by stating that this is the only condition in which Koreans would accept Indian teachers.
I remember a guy from South Africa that taught here. He said that students and fellow teachers thought that he lived in a hut. He left after enduring a few months of constant racism at school and in his apartment complex. Koreans will run Indians out unless they work for practically nothing. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| sojusucks wrote: |
The article even justifies lower pay by stating that this is the only condition in which Koreans would accept Indian teachers.
Koreans will run Indians out unless they work for practically nothing. |
The market rules.
How hard is that to understand?
We're talking economics here, not philosophy. Supply and demand.
They will get whatever the market can afford. If its not enough, they don't have to come here.
Sure some Indians have good english. So do some Germans. But its not a native-speaking country, is it? |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: Reasonable expectation |
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| sojusucks wrote: |
I remember a guy from South Africa that taught here. He said that students and fellow teachers thought that he lived in a hut. He left after enduring a few months of constant racism at school and in his apartment complex. |
That's not such an outrageous belief. Plenty of people live in huts in South Africa. There ARE also shanty towns in South Africa with people living in horrible conditions.
I think Indian teachers are comparable to South African "teachers" since they both do not use English as their first language. |
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