Korean Job Discussion Forums

[felongtw]

I'm sure this topic has been visited before, but allow me to add my 2 cents to the whole issue ...

Am a South African, living and working in Taiwan for a bit more than 9 years, and generally speaking, happy here. Of course there are things that irk me, where don't they? So, after having spent almost a decade here, I'm considering making the move to Korea. Unfortunately I'm clueless to the "true environment" at that end. Please allow me to sketch a few examples of life here (Taiwan) and perhaps someone at that end (Korea) could give me an objective response - helping me make an informed decision?

Work requirements / income / living here:
To legally work as an EFL teacher here, one needs to have a bachelors degree (in any discipline) and come from an English Native speaking country - that's the very basic. It is illegal to work in a kindergarten or public school (except if certified as a teacher in one's country of origin). One works for a cram school which also applies for/ holds one's work permit. It is completely illegal to work at any other location than that which is stated on one's ARC (alien resident certificate). Changing employers means applying for a new work permit, often resulting in having to make a visa run (fortunately not always) - the employer is very often not keen on letting one go to work elsewhere. THE WORK PERMIT IS LINKED TO THE EMPLOYER, NOT THE PERIOD (like in Japan). Contracts are for a year at a time. Most work for chain schools, others for smaller places resulting in having to "shuttle" between schools to make up enough teaching hours. On average, a teacher may work anything between 20 to 30 teaching hours a week - depending on the individual. I work something like 30 teaching hours a week, excluding private students. I get paid by the hour, i.e. no teach = no pay. Some work for a monthly salary. Not me - been "burned" in the past.

I earn in excess of 2 400 USD per month net. Health- and labor insurance = 25 USD. Though most teachers pay 20% income tax for the first 183 days of any calender year, this rate changes to 10% after 183 days and effectively down to 6% after submitting a tax return - good for anyone staying longer than a year (tax year = calender year). I live in an older apartment which is cheaper. Average rental for a good/ newer place can amount to 375 USD a month. Utilities (gas, water, electricity) can be anything up to 46/ 50 USD a month. My ADSL is 24 USD a month. Telephone bill depends on the person. Food and other expenses work out rather cheap for me as I'm not really into clubbing/ pubbing/ etc. It is not uncommon for me to save up to or more than 1 500 USD a month. Public transport is relatively cheap and readily available - I travel by scooter, sometimes the High Speed Rail or MRT (depending where I am). Taking a flight out of or back to Taiwan usually also works out cheap-ish. So, the cost of living in Taiwan is relatively low compared to other Asian countries (it seems). National Health Insurance means that most have access to good health care. A kidney stone operation resulted in a 2 day hospital stay 4 years ago - my contribution added up to less than 94 USD. Of course certain things remain expensive, i.e. cosmetic dental care (had quite a few teeth "capped" but at way less than it would have been in South Africa and after three years all the caps are still fine). Food is generally easy to come by - lots of supermarkets/ department stores/ road stalls/ night markets/ restaurants. Most of the time, food isn't all that expensive - to the point where it's easier and cheaper (not always) to eat out. One can taste just about any kind of food here, bar something really outrageous. Fruit is relatively expensive - coming from South Africa and a relative abundance of it I suppose just about any country's fruit will be expensive to me ..
There's more than enough to do in terms of free time/ entertainment ... whatever floats your boat - reading/ music/ movies (can be a bit expensive, but that's why one can also get DVDs)/ etc.
Racism - present, but not so much in your face as I've read about in other places.
Weather - hot and humid/ hot and humid/ hot and more humid. Winter is from November to January but not really typical for me - I like this time of year as I can sleep comfortably without having to use the A/C and sometimes even having to sleep with a comforter on my bed. I've heard it can be very cold in Taipei.
Social life - The English level at grass roots level isn't all that inspiring, but then again, if it was, what would I be doing here - please note: this is my PERSONAL experience and opinion. English proficiency DOES vary in this country - at times, unbelievably so.

At work:
One usually teaches elementary school aged kids up to junior high when they leave the typical cram school for another kind where mostly locals work (as EFL teachers) - I won't share my opinion about this. In the cram school, one mostly teaches off-the-shelf materials which can be ok/ enough to fill up a two hour session (typical length of one class). Most of the time there will be one or two students who are in over their heads, i.e. in level three but should be in level one. Depending on one's luck, this ratio per class can be way higher than usual depending on the cram school. Fortunately this isn't the norm. I work in the Southern part of Taiwan and I am hesitant to comment about kids' behavior/ work ethic/ study commitment/ etc. because my experience could be unique. Let's just say that the South is waaaaaay different from the central part of Taiwan (my experience). Teaching methodology also seems adapted to the environment.

To summarize:
Though the work permit situation in Taiwan is rather restrictive, it seems as though one can earn a good income and live comfortably with a relatively low cost of living. The work environment can sometimes be a bit much, but this is probably true for most other places. Though Taiwan is not really pristine (lots of pollution, especially air) it is also not without its attractions. I'm sure I left out lots of stuff but someone's reaction could perhaps point that out. The main thing I wanted to do is to give you an idea of what life can be like here and comparing that to what might be waiting in Korea. Is there anyone out there who would venture a response .... PLEASE? Many thanks in advance.

[andrewchon]

One obvious difference is weather. Today, -13 C. Tomorrow -14C.
Kangwondo is -20 C. Also very dry.

If you're looking for a change scenery, Middle East is an option for you.

[Hightop]

OP I seem to be in a similar position to you. I have worked in Korea on and off since 2002 and in March I will move to Taiwan. Korea sounds similar to what you write about Taiwan but I will point out some differences.

Workplace. In Korea it used to be that most people worked in cram schools but these days there are more and more people working in public schools. these jobs are much of a muchness....public school = more hours at school but usually less teaching. Pay can be a little higher in cram schools but you can get a little more vacation in public schools (although not as much as you used to)
Cost of living. Korea is more exp than Taiwan. In the last 10 years food prices have risen more here than in any other OECD country. Food here is not cheap. Imported goods are exp. Even goods made in Korea are exp.
Housing. Most jobs give you a place to live which is both good and bad. You have little say in the place but you do not have to pay for it.
Weather. Korea has 4 seasons^^ Summer is hot, fall is cool, winter is cold, spring is warm
Food. Korea has some nice food, spicy but delicious, and it is good for health but it is not nearly as good as nor is there as much variety as Taiwan.
Pay. It is rare to be paid by the hour for a full time job here. Usually you are paid a monthly salary. With nine years experience I would guess you could be looking at 2.8-3.2 mill a month for 20-25 hours a week class time. If your work overtime or private classes you will be paid hourly.
Medical insurance. The NHS here is really good. Dental and doctors are very cheap for me compared to NZ. I went to an ENT doctor this week, 3,800 for the doctor and 4,000 for the prescription.
Travel. Travel to and from Korea is a mixed bag. Sometimes you can get cheap fares to anywhere, sometimes they are exp. Usually if you do not fly on Korean carriers you can find a cheaper ticket.
Savings. This is very dependent on the person and how often you travel abroad but if you are pulling in 3mill a month you should be able to save at least 1.5mill if not 2mill a month.

Good luck with the move.

[Yaya]

The OP should also realize that he or she as a South African is less in demand than an American or Canadian native speaker.

[redaxe]

I don't teach English but I live in Korea and I have friends who have taught ESL in both Korea and Taiwan. They say that Taiwan is just like Korea except "the weather is warmer, the food is better, and the people are nicer." The fact that you describe yourself as "happy" there is a good sign. A lot of people teaching in Korea would not.

The pay in Taiwan is a little lower (Taiwan has less demand for ESL than Korea does) but the cost of living is also lower so it seems to even out in terms of your savings.

I'd say only come to Korea if you find a job that will pay you a lot more than you're making now, after adjusting for cost of living. I would not move to Korea unless you can get a paycheck big enough to give you a much better lifestyle than you already have in Taiwan.

Plus, having been in Taiwan for nine years, you must have a lot of friends there right? You will have to make new ones in Korea. It's hard to make friends with Koreans if you don't speak Korean, and the foreigners here come and go a lot, so you have to make new friends all the time to replace the ones who leave. So I'm guessing that unless you're really in the boonies of Taiwan, you may find it more frustrating socially here.

Taiwan is very, very small though, so I can see how you might get tired of it and be looking to branch out and try something new.

China could be another good option, since whatever language skills you've picked up in Taiwan would transfer. The ESL jobs there pay much less, but there is a lot of other opportunity in China, and still very low cost of living. I have a friend who taught ESL in Guangzhou for two years and loved it.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

[curiousaboutkorea]

[Davew125]

OP, great post. I'm planning a move with the wife to Taiwan later this year and you've answered many of the questions that i would have had to ask.

I work with a guy who was in Taiwan for 5 years and he says that some aspects are very similar. Cram schools are, in general, badly organised with many last minute changes and run as a profit making business first and an education institute second. I have no experience myself of working in a public school but i've known several people who have and they have all hated it - No one to talk to, no help in class, no guidance out of class, stupid bureaucracy, sitting in an empty school for large parts of summer/winter vacation. Personally i would go for a hakwon but make sure you do your research and speak to as many people at the school as possible.

As with jobs any where in the world your impression of a country will be massively influenced by what part you live in, how your job treats you and what your co-workers are like. Again research research research, don't take anything for granted.

The weather here changes a lot with region. I live in the South and it doesn't really drop below 0 during the day - lovely blue skies and crisp air. It was 15 degrees on Chrsitmas day!(but i don't think thats normal.) However i was up in Seoul a week later and it didnt get above minus 7 the whole time. Summers are hot and humid and my co-worker said that it is as bad as anything he expereinced in Taiwan.

the food is really hit and miss. I'm not a huge fan myself, i find it very one dimensional. everything is flavoured with gochu paste or sesame....or both. But i also know people that love the food, it's a matter of taste. be warned though if you venture out of a big city (300000+) then you will find very very little in the realms of variety of the food.

[naturegirl321]

China DOES have good jobs, but the majority of them won't be advertised here on Dave's. DDDragon has about 10 to 14K a month, but you'll be working a lot of hours and they don't have the best rep.

If you're not a teacher, you can get good jobs in CHIna, IF you're recruited from abroad, PLUS hardship pay.

If you want to teach in CHina, try these places. They usually offer houisng or housing allowance.

www.starbugs.cn 10 to 12K
[email protected] 10 to 14K
[email protected] 10 to 13K
http://www.nottingham.edu.cn
IELTS, about 3500 a weekend for 30 oral tests
www.scholastic.com.cn about 10 to 14K
tsyucui.coachdevelop.com or http://yucuiblog.blogspot.com 10K
http://www.ncuk.ac.uk/ncuk/vacancies.php 16K
http://www.sbc-usst.com 22K
http://www.dulwichcollege.cn

[Hightop]

[redaxe]

[curiousaboutkorea]

[felongtw]

Thanks to one and all who responded to my post .... I was kind of expecting most to say ... "not another newbie!" So, thanks again.

From most posts, it seems kind of like a mixed bag in terms of weighing material options .... one poster said that it would probably be better to move only if I were to get a package which would lift my standard of living higher than what I have now - true.

To the poster who is moving to Taiwan with the wife: what you posted is true, to some extent. This is probably much more applicable to smaller independants than the larger chain schools, but make no mistake, you'll find some of what you mentioned EVERYWHERE. This is Taiwan (and in my experience) - teaching EFL is a business first and foremost - the same I suppose as it is everywhere else. There are some places to watch out for and if you'd like to, PM me and I'll give you my input (for what it's worth).

The one thing I neglected to spell out in my original post is the fact that money matters shouldn't always be the first and decisive aspect of one's decision (it should be in place as a minimum consideration) - being 42, my thoughts are focussing more on job satisfaction and quality of life - i.e. identifying with the country, people, history, culture, language, things for me to experience/ appreciate in that country .... pardon the analogy, but ... "it's like having a variety of partners on a physical basis in one's relationships, and then later finding that the physical side of things may still be important but not as much as having a partner that can share on a mental level" - does this sound confusing?

Is there anyone out there that made sense of this post?

[Julius]

Taiwan vs Korea is ultimately a close call.
Taiwan is friendlier and more relaxed. There is more of a social life. The food is fine.
Main drawbacks for me are the climate- summer monsoon is unbearably humid, worse in the cities.. and it rains heavily every day. The employment :buxiban institutes have all the same problems as korean hogwons but double them by having bigger classes. I don't want to ride a scooter through chaotic traffic every day, neither do I want to have to share a house or find my own accom right at the start for something that may or may not work out.

I prefer Korean students, and I don't need a certificate of education to be able to teach public schools. Public transport is good and reliable , and savings potential is marginally better. However Koreans are less open to outsiders and the stress levels here are higher for all kinds of reasons. I do however prefer the Korean climate -apart from the sweltering June and July, the rest of the year is clear, pleasant, cool.

However considering that the two countries are basically similar, then once you are familiar with one it doesn't really seem worth the effort to uproot and move to the other for what would be debatable/negligible gains.

[Old Gil]

[different]

From what I've read on the Taiwan forum, the ESL job market in Taiwan is awful these days.