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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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 Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I, for one, was so sick of the previous administration waving their non-trans appointees in my face. Flaunting their gender all in my face like that. Disgusting. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| How about the transgender lobby stay out of it, pressuring politicians, issuing press releases, etc., for one thing? |
Sounds good, as soon as every single other lobby does the same thing. Until then, like all other Americans they have a right to be involved in the process.
| Gopher wrote: |
| I grow tired of groups such as National Center for Transgender Equality running victory laps. I know this wholly goes against the grain here -- most people here are absolutely enamored of compensatory politics. |
1) Hiring someone with 30 years of experience in their field is not compensatory politics.
2) If anything, there's a remarkable amount of anti-gay rhetoric on this website given the fact that everyone here has a college education. The CE forum is higly conservative.
| Gopher wrote: |
| But if it is about merit, how about we limit the process and conversation to merit? |
How about we start assuming highly experienced individuals were, in fact, selected on their own merit, regardless of who might have brought said individuals to attention? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Can we see which other candidates were rejected in favor of Simpson?
There is controvery over candidates even without them being transgender. If it's simply based on merit, then we could decide that after seeing who was examined before she was chosen. I don't have that information. I am not going to die if she has the job, but I feel like this was a political move. I could be wrong.
Fox, how was it determined that she was the best for the job? We both know that having someone who is transgendered is going to be controversial. Was there no one else who was qualified for the job? Obama would have avoided this kind of controversy if he appointed someone else.
By the way, I read somewhere that in some place in the Middle East there has been operations on people who were considered the wrong gender.
The question is being transgendered simply an illness or is it simply something in the biology that didn't quite go right and the person felt he was female? I can understand the logic, but religious people will not.
I don't know enough about the science connected to this, but I know people are born hermaphrodites, not exactly male or female but feel this or that gender. That is biologically true, we know that. Does this apply to transgendered people? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
How about the transgender lobby stay out of it, pressuring politicians, issuing press releases, etc., for one thing?
I grow tired of groups such as National Center for Transgender Equality running victory laps. I know this wholly goes against the grain here -- most people here are absolutely enamored of compensatory politics.
But if it is about merit, how about we limit the process and conversation to merit? I guess that remains too much to ask at this time and place.
And I love the part here where people are asserting that transgender offensives in political appointments and employment is a mere imagination of "the religious right," or that their lobby is not actively pressuring government officials hard on every level.
http://www.transequality.org/ |
Okay.
So you're not saying that this . . . individual should not be confirmed. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course I am not saying that. That was never my position. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Fox, how was it determined that she was the best for the job? |
I don't know. I know the following facts:
1) She is transgendered.
2) She is highly qualified.
3) She was originally suggested for the position by a gay activist group.
Nothing in that set of information gives any cause to believe she was not the best for the job, so like anyone else who is hired for a position, I'm going to accept she was -- at least in her employer's estimation -- the best for the job. I think that's a fairly reasonable assumption, and I would say the burden of proof regarding her lack of qualifications would lie on anyone asserting she was a political pick.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| We both know that having someone who is transgendered is going to be controversial. Was there no one else who was qualified for the job? Obama would have avoided this kind of controversy if he appointed someone else. |
And here's the real crux of the matter. Her qualifications aren't what matter. Even the possibility of her being the most qualified isn't the issue. The real issue is, "Wasn't there a non-transgendered individual who we possibly could have given this job to?" As the quote at the end of the article says, she wasn't hired because she was transgender, but rather her being transgender simply wasn't a deal-breaker for the Obama Administration.
When anyone has any evidence of lack of qualification, or any evidence that obviously more qualified individuals were put forward for the job but rejected in favor of her, we can start talking about political picks and lack of merit. Until then, such talk is unjustifiable. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyway, Gopher's feelings may shed some light on the Religious Right's feelings. But unlike Gopher, the Religious Right has had, IMO, far too much say in gov't over the greater half of the 00s. So they can kiss off. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:38 am Post subject: |
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How powerful is the transgender lobby anyway? Maybe "with the richness of her experiences, Ms. Simpson will more often than not come to a better conclusion than her non-transgender colleagues."  |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Aside from issues of gender identity, just how is Amanda Simpson NOT qualified? Of the other people up for the job, who was more qualified?
I would like to hear how Amanda Simpson is NOT qualified for the job. In the same post, I'd like to hear which of the other candidates for the position was more qualified. If sexual reassignment surgery is relevant to the position of senior technical advisor in the Commerce Dept. monitoring weapons export technology (with 30 years experience in the field, some at Raytheon, with degrees in physics, engineering and business), I'd like to know how. Please be specific. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| I don't know enough about the science connected to this, but I know people are born hermaphrodites, not exactly male or female but feel this or that gender. That is biologically true, we know that. Does this apply to transgendered people? |
Hermaphroditism and transgenderism are distinct entities.
There are three types of hermaphrodites:
1) true hermaphrodites, who have genitalia of both sexes and often a mosaic XX/XY genotype;
2) male pseudohermaphrodites, who appear to have female genitalia but possess the XY genotype. One such group develops male genitalia at puberty and thus no longer deserve inclusion in the category; and
3) female pseudohermaphrodites, who have male-appearing genitalia often as the result of some hormonal condition but have the XX genotype.
Individuals with Gender Identity Disorder ("transgenders") subjectively feel like a member of the sex opposite to their outward appearance ("a female brain trapped inside of a male body" and vice versa).
An infamous case of iatrogenic male psuedohermaphroditism is the "John/Joan" case, or "the boy raised as a girl." Due to a botched circumcision soon after birth, doctors recommended and parents consented to sex reassignment surgery on the infant. They tried to raise the child as a girl, but he always preferred male play and would tear off the dresses they tried to put on him, thus demonstrating the primacy of brain sex over phenotype. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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I did not know that the American Psychiatric Association deemed "gender identity disorder" a mental illness, Bacasper. Thank you for that cue...
| Quote: |
Gender identity disorder - Overview
�Overview
�Symptom
�Treatment
�Prevention
�All Information
Alternative Names
Transsexualism
Definition of Gender identity disorder:
Gender identity disorder is a conflict between a person's actual physical gender and the one they actually identify him or herself as. For example, a person identified as a boy may actually feel and act like a girl.
See also: Intersex
Causes, incidence, and risk factors:
People with gender identity disorder may act and present themselves as members of the opposite sex. The disorder may affect:
�Choice of sexual partners
�Display of feminine or masculine mannerisms, behavior, and dress
�Self-concept
Gender identity disorder is not the same as homosexuality.
Identity issues can occur in many situations and appear in different ways. For example, some people with normal genitalia and sexual characteristics (such as breasts) of one gender privately identify more with the other gender.
Some people may cross-dress, and some may seek sex-change surgery. Others are born with ambiguous genitalia, which can raise identity issues.
The cause is unknown, but hormones in the womb, genes, and environmental factors (such as parenting) may be involved. The rare disorder may occur in children or adults... |
University of Maryland Medical Center |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
I don't know. I know the following facts:
1) She is transgendered.
2) She is highly qualified.
3) She was originally suggested for the position by a gay activist group.
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1 and 2 are not suspicious. 3 is. Does that mean she shouldn't be confirmed? No. But it causes undue and inappropriate attention to be placed on this appointee. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:47 am Post subject: |
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The same people who say the Israel lobby isn't influential are the same ones upset about the tranny lobby's influence and power. Too funny.  |
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