Korean Job Discussion Forums

[KoreanAmbition]

Many schools value MA TESOL, but does your university value CELTA?

Do they pay extra salary for employees that have it?
or
Does having it help someone get a job where you work?


I've noticed so many job ads categorizing it as if it was "just some" average TESOL certificate. To me, this would imply most employers don't value it. Meanwhile, they all ask for MA TESOL, and usually mentioning having some form of a TESOL certificate. It seems MA TESOL is very high up on a hiring committee's list of interests.

Please make any comments that you would for or against this topic.
Cheers.


PLEASE NOTE: I know that I've typed MA TESOL many times, but this is not an MA TESOL promotional technique. Contrary to what Cosmic Hum thinks, just mentioning a name several times does not make it an advertisement.

[some waygug-in]

The word according to this forum is....


it won't matter a hill of beans in Korea.....


but it may open some doors for you in other countries.

[KoreanAmbition]

In your opinion (and others from the forum that you are speaking for), then what is the reason that South Korea doesn't realize that it's valuable?

[edwardcatflap]

Any school that really cares about what its teachers actually do in the class room has the CELTA (or other practical TEFL qualification) as a minimum requirement.

[naturegirl321]

KA,
DId you finish your CELTA course? How was it?

[bassexpander]

No particular order here:

Reason #1: On average, Koreans value North American English above all others. I'm not saying that's right -- I'm saying that's the way it is. The CELTA is a British thing.

Reason #2: The CELTA is not geared toward teaching children, which most hagwons are set up to do.

Reason #3: To recognize the CELTA would lead to more money flowing out of the country, which Koreans just don't want anything to do with. Those in power (connected to Chaebols, etc.) want Koreans spending their money on Koreans whenever possible, because it all comes back to them.

Reason #4: (I am basically retyping what those who have taken it have posted in the past) CELTA instruction is not necessarily applicable to hagwon or public school teaching in Korea. There are exceptions, but as a whole, teaching methods/style/expectations don't translate well in the Korean classroom. It's not CELTA's fault. It's a cultural difference.

Reason #5: Big TEFL programs like Sookmyung, which is a massive cash cow, are closely related to people high-up in the Korean gov't educational circles. See reason #3.

Reason #6: To actually complete the CELTA would mean that Korean English teachers would have to have an excellent command of the language -- both spoken and written. As we all know, there are far too many "older" teachers who wouldn't pass muster, and in this confucist society, older people can't be considered sub-par, or be placed in a situation where they might lose face.

Reason #7: Hagwons are a money-making business. Schools here hire based on looks, perceived background, etc., not necessarily on teaching ability. Many schools would rather hire a young, attractive, pliable, easily-manipulated individual who works for cheap and won't be "difficult." Older people with more experience, in some schools, can present an uncomfortable challenge to authority.

Reason #8: Public schools only let you teach each student about once (or maybe twice, if you're lucky) for one hour per week. A CELTA isn't going to mean a hill of beans with that little contact, and the schools know it. The schools may preach that they want experienced teachers, but they'd much rather hire someone for cheap just to have a pliable/friendly foreigner in the classroom. Putting foreign faces in front of Korean students in the public schools has little to do with teaching English, and a lot to do with trying to convince parents not to spend their money on hagwons.

Reason #9: Universities will pay more attention to ability, and at that level, the person teaching shouldn't need a CELTA on their resume to prove they can teach. They'd already better know how. Plus, the universities are more interested in hiring MA's.

Reason #10: The CELTA is too damned expensive. Few people coming to teach in Korea are willing to invest over 2 million won on a program that they may never recoup the costs for. Teachers don't stay teaching long enough (in Korea) to make up the money. Most people who come here are attracted to making money to paying-off debt from back home -- not growing more debt by taking the CELTA. Yeah, you can get a slight pay bump at a public school for having one, but the schools are just too cheap to make spending much on a good TEFL program worthwhile.

[edwardcatflap]

I agree with all of that except 9. I've heard about plenty of people with MAs at universities here who can't teach their way out of a paper bag and have been practising the same old bad habits for years without ever being observed

[bassexpander]

[KoreanAmbition]

Bassexpander,

I'm surprised with a lot of what you said.

My question was primarily focused on the university level, which is why CELTA is appropriate for that age. At the same time, I do agree with your comments about Koreans taking CELTA, but I was referring to foreigners taking it and having it recognized. I totally agree that it would be tough to expect Koreans to have it...but it doesn't mean that younger teachers that can acquire it shouldn't be rewarded for having that knowledge. You're right, CELTA probably won't help someone that has large classes, or rarely sees the students, as you were pointing out. But as far as age of students, I think young students would be just fine with the techniques. From the sounds of it, you haven't taken the CELTA, so you're going by what others have said. I think students in elementary school through high-school would be fine with the teaching style. The teachers have more than enough techniques to create a strong learning experience.

I'm not sure what you mean by the NA English vs. British thing. CELTA doesn't teach you British English... it teaches you techniques for teaching.

I agree with Edwardcatflap regarding universities. If you want a teacher that has ability, then most likely universities SHOULD be looking for a CELTA since it's practical. What's so practical about most MA's people are taking?

Most long-time teachers I know that have taken CELTA found it demanding and difficult and for those that wanted to remain in the profession, they found it very valuable.

Regarding hagwons, if a teacher learns strong teaching techniques and starts utilizing them, then turnover at their hagwon would be minimized substantially, and probably enrollment would even go up. It would be in a hagwon owner's best interests to share the costs of its employees taking a CELTA.

Anyways, just my opinions. Hopefully others will come to the table regarding this topic.

[KoreanAmbition]

Naturegirl,

I'm currently taking the course. It's very intense, and so far I consider this to be a worthwhile investment.

I am sure the payback on taking the CELTA will be excellent.

[SarahSleanFan]

KA, how much did you pay for your CELTA? I could take a 4-week course here for �1200, but I've not heard about its usefulness much here and it seems pretty steep for 4 weeks.

[KoreanAmbition]

Sarah,

The cost is 2.2 million won. I personally see it as having many benefits.

[DosEquisXX]

For EPIK, a CELTA certification will give you a nice pay boost.

But at the same time, the 100+ hour TESOL will do the same thing for much less.

[The Cosmic Hum]

[bassexpander]

I can also see it being very valuable... just not worth the cost for me.

Let me put it into perspective (and no, this isn't bragging -- it's somewhat typical at many universities during breaks for those who plan to stick around and work OT).

Taking the CELTA would mean lost work time for me, plus the cost of the course. Given my busy Fall/Spring schedule, which is often hither/thither all around during the school year, I couldn't make it work.

That leaves summer/winter break... but that's also the time when I either head home to see family, or choose to stick around and clean up on "extra" courses our university gives us. I'm finishing up one round of winter school, which is paying about 35,000 per hour extra on top of my base pay I already get. Then, in a few weeks, I'll be teaching some 70,000 per hour business courses also sponsored by my school -- 4 hours per day -- or about 2.8 million worth in 2 weeks (some of my lucky comrades are already on their 2nd round of these, and will clear more than me this winter).

So, if I were to take the CELTA this month, I'd be loosing about 4 to 5 million won in pay PLUS paying 2.2 million for the tuition of the CELTA. To me, that means a CELTA would cost me between 6 and 7 million (or a trip home to see my family).

Working extra like this during the holidays is a typical thing for us at our university (and most of us beg to do it, unless we're heading out of Korea for a spell). I'd lose even more if I had to pay housing somewhere while doing a CELTA.

Chances are that having a CELTA would benefit me very little in finding another university job, given that I already have 4 years at this school and will have completed my MA/TESOL by the end of the next contract. If I wanted to work outside of Korea -- no doubt, it would be extremely useful (in the right countries). In the USA, it would mean nothing. Given that I am married to a Korean, there is little chance of me needing to go elsewhere.

That's just my situation, though. I just wanted to point out that, for those of us already teaching at a university, there is a lot more to consider besides just tuition costs.

I want to add that, for those of you who haven't found it, the Cambridge website provides some excellent classroom activities for university students. A good friend of mine works with Cambridge, and if you look closely at their sales catalogue, you'll find my quote plugging one of their book series this year.