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sugarkane59
Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| shapeshifter wrote: |
| Xuanzang wrote: |
| It's all or nothing when it comes to high school. One year abroad and she'll be behind in Korea's system. Won't be enough time for her to gain anything meaningful English wise. |
That's just not true. One year in an english-speaking environment would make an enormous difference. |
If that were true, most of us would be pretty good in Korean. |
Not necessarily jvalmer. I lived abroad when I was 18 for a year and learned Spanish fluently from scratch. The difference to Korea? I lived with 2 host families during that year and HAD to learn Spanish to communicate. Here, I live with my boyfriend and work in a hagwon - there really is no need to learn any more than survival Korean if that's all you can be bothered to learn. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Daughter to Canada |
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| ed wrote: |
8 years ago I came to Korea and met a Korean woman and fell in love.
She had just gotten divorced and she had a 5 year old daughter.
We dated for two years then got married.
Now our daughter is 13 and we are thinking about sending her to Canada (specifically Vancouver) this summer to attend one year of high school.
Has anyone had any experience with this kind of thing?
I wonder if my being Canadian would make this a little easier and cheaper to do. |
Does she have Canadian citizenship?
If not, she has to pay international student tuition and typically it is expensive.
As for the one year makes no difference or no meaningful difference...that is pure rubbish. It makes a world of difference in language acquisition.
OP: look into exchange programs, maybe your daughters school is paired up to a Canadian school. Then an exchange program may be possible. Burseries may be available if she is a good student (marks).
Also check on the CEC (an organisation promoting the Canadian Education System for foreign students), if they still operate they had an office in Seoul and a pretty detailed website. Maybe they ahev something.
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| If that were true, most of us would be pretty good in Korean. |
Yes we would IF you were comparing things that actually compare.... 
His daughter: going to attend FULL TIME SCHOOL in Canada in ENGLISH for one year.
You and other foreign teachers: Going to TEACH ENGLISH in an ENGLISH SCHOOL for a year in Korea.
The difference is painfully obvious...good lord. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Daughter to Canada |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If that were true, most of us would be pretty good in Korean. |
Yes we would IF you were comparing things that actually compare....
His daughter: going to attend FULL TIME SCHOOL in Canada in ENGLISH for one year.
You and other foreign teachers: Going to TEACH ENGLISH in an ENGLISH SCHOOL for a year in Korea.
The difference is painfully obvious...good lord. |
I'll admit the situations are different. But, the fact that a lot of english speakers don't learn much Korean is because of lack of effort and tons of excuses. Could be like an unmotivated student.
I'm not sure if she would be completely fluent. But she will most likely a lot better at english than now. But, think long and hard before you send her over there for a year before her secondary schooling is finished. It will effect her life. |
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ed
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: thank you |
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Thank you for all your responses!
last night my wife, daughter and myself read all of these replies then we discussed for a few hours.
we finally decided that she will do 3 years of middle school in our city then go to an international high school somewhere in South Korea.
Thanks again! |
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Emark
Joined: 10 May 2007
Location: duh, Korea?
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:00 am Post subject: Re: thank you |
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| ed wrote: |
Thank you for all your responses!
last night my wife, daughter and myself read all of these replies then we discussed for a few hours.
we finally decided that she will do 3 years of middle school in our city then go to an international high school somewhere in South Korea.
Thanks again! |
Winner!
bing, bing, bing, bing, bing!
+1 |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Thank you for all your responses!
last night my wife, daughter and myself read all of these replies then we discussed for a few hours.
we finally decided that she will do 3 years of middle school in our city then go to an international high school somewhere in South Korea.
Thanks again! |
I think this is a good solution. Your only difficulty will be that international high schools in Korea are preposterously expensive. For my family it is just unthinkable. I could go to Oxford for some of these tuitions.
Again, you might consider having her attend one of the better local Korean high schools and augmenting that with summer programs. There are ones in Vancouver or lower-cost ones in New Zealand or Australia (even the Philippines) if you would like her closer.
I am not entering the argument on language acquisition because I don't know about it. I just think a girl is too young to live away from home on a different continent at sixteen, let alone thirteen. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:29 am Post subject: Re: thank you |
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| ed wrote: |
Thank you for all your responses!
last night my wife, daughter and myself read all of these replies then we discussed for a few hours.
we finally decided that she will do 3 years of middle school in our city then go to an international high school somewhere in South Korea.
Thanks again! |
Can I ask what you hope to accomplish? What are you goals for your daughter?
The reason I ask, as a current English teacher at an international highschool is there are two streams of students: ones who can barely speak English at an academic level and have trouble reading and writing for their grade level, and the ones who lived in a Westernized school system long enough to have developed critical reading, writing and oral communication skills on par or above average for their grade level.
For kids like your daughter who have had no formal training in academic English and then come to high school, they typically get stuck in an ESL type program for a year or two to get them up to grade level. This means, you pay $30,000 a year for your daughter to study ESL at the school. The immersion she will get won't really be worth it due to her social life will be in Korean. She will only speak/hear English at school and perhaps your home. Outside of that, Korean rules.
I would have you consider, is she to go to a university outside Korea or inside Korea? If you expect her to go to a Korean university, no problems. But a Canadian university will be tough for someone who has only 3 years of academic English under their belts, and probably not a high level of it. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| shapeshifter wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| shapeshifter wrote: |
| Xuanzang wrote: |
| It's all or nothing when it comes to high school. One year abroad and she'll be behind in Korea's system. Won't be enough time for her to gain anything meaningful English wise. |
That's just not true. One year in an english-speaking environment would make an enormous difference. |
If that were true, most of us would be pretty good in Korean. |
No, the two situations just aren't comparable. I'm not talking about learning through some sort of mysterious process of osmosis. I'm talking about going to a country, ideally as a kid, and living in an environment where you either speak the new language or stay mute. As an English teacher in Korea, it's entirely possible (and I would say extremely common) to continue to use English in most situations. Obviously, a year of doing that won't get you very far.
However, a Korean highschool student going to school, sitting in a cafeteria with a bunch of (non-Korean) kids, passing exams, making friends, etc. will simply have no choice but to sort his or her English out in a hurry. Again, assuming the child in question is of at least normal intelligence, she'll learn and she'll learn a lot. |
+ 1
In order to pass school in an English-speaking country, you HAVE to learn English.
| Emark wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| shapeshifter wrote: |
| Xuanzang wrote: |
| It's all or nothing when it comes to high school. One year abroad and she'll be behind in Korea's system. Won't be enough time for her to gain anything meaningful English wise. |
That's just not true. One year in an english-speaking environment would make an enormous difference. |
If that were true, most of us would be pretty good in Korean. |
Winner!
bing bing bing bing bing!
+1 |
 What, are you joking? Of course GOING TO SCHOOL and USING the language of the country you are living in will allow you to learn the language quickly. If you don't believe me, start taking university classes in the regular Korean-language program at a university, move in with a family that doesn't speak English, and get a job in a Korean office where your co-workers don't speak English. You WILL learn Korean and you will learn it quickly (unless you have a learning disability, which seems to be the case, given some of your posts).
Boy, some of the "English teachers" on here don't know squat about learning languages.  |
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Emark
Joined: 10 May 2007
Location: duh, Korea?
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
What, are you joking? Of course GOING TO SCHOOL and USING the language of the country you are living in will allow you to learn the language quickly. If you don't believe me, start taking university classes in the regular Korean-language program at a university, move in with a family that doesn't speak English, and get a job in a Korean office where your co-workers don't speak English. You WILL learn Korean and you will learn it quickly (unless you have a learning disability, which seems to be the case, given some of your posts).
Boy, some of the "English teachers" on here don't know squat about learning languages. |
I'm discussing this post in relation to the concerns of a young girl falling behind as she removes herself from Korea, it's education system, and society. Will she learn English better in an immersion situation? Of course she will, however to varying degrees depending on her willingness to apply herself to her studies AND events, situations, activities in everyday life outside class.
Now, upon her return, like so many other students that take a year or two in another country, she is likely to have fallen behind in the Korean system. This is the crux of the issue at hand; the catch 22 of attempting to learn English through study and live outside Korea. Is it really worth her advancement in English at the expense of her overall education in Korea?
Again, this is not just a language learning issue. This is Korean culture, society and education issue.
Boy, some of the foreigners on here don't know squat about Korean society. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Valid point Emark.
I would venture to say it would depend which years are spent abroad and how the family prepares and supports the child studying abroad.
The last or the last two years of high school abroad would not have much of an effect on academic progress in Korea because the student would then apply to University (if that is his or her choice).
The time abroad might be an advantage in such a case.
Other scenarios can be less positive of course. |
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Emark
Joined: 10 May 2007
Location: duh, Korea?
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Valid point Emark.
I would venture to say it would depend which years are spent abroad and how the family prepares and supports the child studying abroad.
The last or the last two years of high school abroad would not have much of an effect on academic progress in Korea because the student would then apply to University (if that is his or her choice).
The time abroad might be an advantage in such a case.
Other scenarios can be less positive of course. |
Thanks Patrick.
I can't imagine the stress, concern and measure of thinking or planning that goes into making these decisions. The parents I know of in these situations have nightmares! The world is changing so quickly too. Decisions and plans made when a kid is 12 have to be rerouted at 16, and possibly uprooted in the midst of university.
I'm glad I am not currently dealing with those decisions. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Its not that bad emark!
We have two mixed kids. One (our son) was born in Korea and lived there until he was nearly 4. The other (our daughter) was born in Canada.
We would have no problem moving to another country if the chance was there. Korea is still not out of our plans.
Kids can maintain their studies pretty easily these days with all the international schools. Even switching from one country to the other can be done with proper prep by the parents.
Its not that stressful to be honest. I think people without kids may see it as far more complex than it is...just my two cents! |
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emetib
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere between sanity and insanity.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Having attended university in a foreign language, immersion of any kind will definitely be beneficial to her (I agree with the international school suggestion), but success is also going to be determined by how dedicated she is to her studies. Both of these factors have been pointed out and I believe both to be correct. Right now, due to her age, she might have a rather lackluster attitude towards her English training, being more focused on friends and whatnot. However, later on in life when she finds she needs it, she'll draw upon it.
If she attends an English speaking university, she'll more than likely be putting in two-three times as much work in the beginning until she finds her legs and her fluency, but she should be alright. She will have to be dedicated to get over that initial language "hump." I remember spelling out words phonetically that the professor said and then dashing home to find and translate them. Thank God I did, I saved myself some embarrassing run-ins with my professors and fellow students.  |
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