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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: Obama's Bait and Switch |
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704362004575001082565645338.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular
Put aside your feelings about Karl Rove, George Bush, Republicans, or whatever. Just look at the article and the facts presented. Ignore the cheap shots at Obama that Rove puts in there.
I would like people focus on the facts of the article. Rove states many examples of Obama being a hypocrite.
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President George W. Bush drew heated criticism from Democrats for his signing statements. Among his toughest critics was Barack Obama, who in a questionnaire for the Boston Globe in 2007 accused Mr. Bush of "clear abuse" in using signing statements "to avoid enforcing certain provisions . . . the President does not like." He promised not to use signing statements to "nullify or undermine congressional instructions as enacted into law."
Yet Mr. Obama started issuing signing statements shortly after taking office. Democratic Reps. Barney Frank and David Obey called him out on it in a letter to the White House complaining that they were "chagrined" that Mr. Obama was issuing signing statements. |
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During his campaign, Mr. Obama pledged that any negotiations on health-care legislation would be broadcast on C-SPAN, "so the American people can see what the choices are," and not conducted behind closed doors. "Such public negotiations," he said, were "the antidote" to "overcoming the special interests and the lobbyists who . . . will resist anything that we try to do."
Internet publisher Andrew Breitbart collected videotape of Mr. Obama making the same promise eight different times in 2007 and 2008�evidence that this was not a hasty or ill-considered pledge. It was supposed to epitomize the "change" that was at the core of the Obama campaign.
Now, however, the final negotiations on health-care reform are being conducted behind closed doors and there's no formal legislative conference between the House and Senate, which would guarantee Republicans at least a few seats at the table. This bill is not only being written in secrecy, it is being written by an anonymous group of Democrats. We can therefore throw Mr. Obama's commitment to bipartisanship onto his mountain of broken promises. |
All those in support of Obama. These are just 2 more examples of Obama breaking his campaign promises. How can you sit there and not be angry at his actions? For the past year he has broken a number of promises:
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| the pledges he cast aside were reducing the deficit, reining in federal spending, not allowing lobbyists to work in his administration, increasing taxes only on those who make more than $250,000, and opposing "government-run health care" because it is "extreme." |
Do you Obama supporters still think he is "change"? Do you still think he is different than previous politicians? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the Obama supporters, such as they were, that are able to be reached have admitted that he's a disappointment. Those who still hold onto the faith even now *glances at calendar* are unrepenting kool-aid drinkers. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I would be interested to know how many posters on this board still support the man. Say "aye!" if you still support him. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| I think the Obama supporters, such as they were, that are able to be reached have admitted that he's a disappointment. Those who still hold onto the faith even now *glances at calendar* are unrepenting kool-aid drinkers. |
Ah! You beat me to the punch. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| I would be interested to know how many posters on this board still support the man. Say "aye!" if you still support him. |
Aye. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that Obama -- and the Democratic Party -- are really messing up. Give them a few more years and they might prove themselves to be as bad as the Republicans were.
The best thing America could do in this situation is to start turning to minority parties. The big parties have both failed us. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| I would be interested to know how many posters on this board still support the man. Say "aye!" if you still support him. |
Aye. |
Okay, I'll start on why Obama is a bad President and has violated beliefs that are not threatened by political expediency.
He straight-up lied to the American people about stopping torture (Bagram).
Your move. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| I would be interested to know how many posters on this board still support the man. Say "aye!" if you still support him. |
Aye. |
Okay, I'll start on why Obama is a bad President and has violated beliefs that are not threatened by political expediency.
He straight-up lied to the American people about stopping torture (Bagram).
Your move. |
One more thing before your move is over: what's the alternative? Republican, another Democrat, third party? I'm not interested in hearing about who is a bad president if there is no better (and realistic) alternative. In addition to the bad president bit I'd also like to know if you consider him irreparably set in his ways (incurable), or whether in your opinion bad president can change to good president in the next year or two or seven. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| I would be interested to know how many posters on this board still support the man. Say "aye!" if you still support him. |
Aye. |
Okay, I'll start on why Obama is a bad President and has violated beliefs that are not threatened by political expediency.
He straight-up lied to the American people about stopping torture (Bagram).
Your move. |
One more thing before your move is over: what's the alternative? Republican, another Democrat, third party? I'm not interested in hearing about who is a bad president if there is no better (and realistic) alternative. In addition to the bad president bit I'd also like to know if you consider him irreparably set in his ways (incurable), or whether in your opinion bad president can change to good president in the next year or two or seven. |
I'll start with the last. Absolutely, absolutely can Obama change to a good President. I cannot predict future results except based on past performance (and present indicators), but a man can change. Obama's foreign policy offers the brightest hope, but that's (partly) because . . .
. . . Hillary would've made a better President. Obama has a conservative temperament, which makes him the wrong man for the time. He also never had the same command over policy as Hillary (look at his odd lie about not campaigning the public option, like Hillary's odd claim of being welcomed to Bosnia with gunfire, he probably simply remembers it that way).
Hillary would've backed a lot of the crap Obama has (Stimulus, bail outs), but no doubt she would've gotten personally involved in Health Care. Obama has delegated legislative control to a Congress in which the American people have no faith (chronic sub-30% approval ratings for about the past decade). And apparently he has only as much (little?) personal integrity as the Clintons. So I'd have to go with the masterminds over the young pup, on just about every issue. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| I would be interested to know how many posters on this board still support the man. Say "aye!" if you still support him. |
Aye. |
Okay, I'll start on why Obama is a bad President and has violated beliefs that are not threatened by political expediency.
He straight-up lied to the American people about stopping torture (Bagram).
Your move. |
One more thing before your move is over: what's the alternative? Republican, another Democrat, third party? I'm not interested in hearing about who is a bad president if there is no better (and realistic) alternative. In addition to the bad president bit I'd also like to know if you consider him irreparably set in his ways (incurable), or whether in your opinion bad president can change to good president in the next year or two or seven. |
I'll start with the last. Absolutely, absolutely can Obama change to a good President. I cannot predict future results except based on past performance (and present indicators), but a man can change. Obama's foreign policy offers the brightest hope, but that's (partly) because . . .
. . . Hillary would've made a better President. Obama has a conservative temperament, which makes him the wrong man for the time. He also never had the same command over policy as Hillary (look at his odd lie about not campaigning the public option, like Hillary's odd claim of being welcomed to Bosnia with gunfire, he probably simply remembers it that way).
Hillary would've backed a lot of the crap Obama has (Stimulus, bail outs), but no doubt she would've gotten personally involved in Health Care. Obama has delegated legislative control to a Congress in which the American people have no faith (chronic sub-30% approval ratings for about the past decade). And apparently he has only as much (little?) personal integrity as the Clintons. So I'd have to go with the masterminds over the young pup, on just about every issue. |
Okay. I have to admit my largest concern is foreign policy and I'm really pleased with how they're handling Iran. I don't even think President Clinton would have been wise enough to mostly leave things there alone after the election. On other issues I'm going to wait another year or so to see what happens since pretty much everything to do with legislation isn't done or hasn't even been started yet. I do find Democrats to be quite funny though, as every time they elect a president it's as if they're all one step away from withdrawing their support over their favourite issue. Didn't repeal DADT yet, you sold us out! Military budget is too high, you sold us out! I'm starting to see why Democratic presidents have been so rare. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Lets not get mired into a discussion of "if not Obama / Democrats who can do better?"
This thread is purely about Obama and what he's promised versus what he's done. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Lets not get mired into a discussion of "if not Obama / Democrats who can do better?"
This thread is purely about Obama and what he's promised versus what he's done. |
Oh, so it's just useless blather about what ifs. Count me out of the discussion then. As for what he's promised vs. what he's done, just check here.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/ |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Hillary would've made a better President... |
I have lived to see the day.
Yes, indeed, she would have. That day still may come. Who knows? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm, let's see here. There are 52 weeks in a year, 4 years in a presidential term. Total: 208 weeks. Obama is at Week 51. Yes, by all means, let's declare him a loser. 
The most interesting dynamic on this kind of thread is that they are always started by people who never supported the guy in the first place. It seems to me that the OP is asking for validation of his prejudice.
In our system, we have a choice between two people. While there are dozens of minor candidates, there are only 2 who have any hope in heck to win. Given that, if you are disillusioned with the winner, then you have to consider what things would have been like had the loser pulled it out. So, would we be better off today under McCain? What policies of his would have worked out better, given the real world circumstances of last winter at this time? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Hmmm, let's see here. There are 52 weeks in a year, 4 years in a presidential term. Total: 208 weeks. Obama is at Week 51. Yes, by all means, let's declare him a loser. |
Why should judgment be withheld simply because he has 3 more years on the job? Imagine applying that philosophy to any other position. "Well, yes, Bob's done a terrible job as a doctor, but he's not set to retire for another few decades, so let's withhold judgment for now." But that would be ridiculous. I don't see why the Presidency must be thought of any differently. Yeah, Obama could somehow turn things around tomorrow. And a negligent, ineffective doctor could turn around and become a diligent, dutiful doctor tomorrow too. But we don't exhonerate the doctor on that account, so why should we exhonerate a President?
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| The most interesting dynamic on this kind of thread is that they are always started by people who never supported the guy in the first place. It seems to me that the OP is asking for validation of his prejudice. |
Of course he is. But, that doesn't change the fact that he's correct.
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| So, would we be better off today under McCain? What policies of his would have worked out better, given the real world circumstances of last winter at this time? |
This is the kind of attitude that has lead to Americans being screwed by their politicians in the first place. Yes, McCain would almost assuredly have been worse. Unlike certain people I also don't think Clinton would have been better. She'd be more aggressive on things like healthcare reform, but I don't think the Senate would have budged for her. But none of this exhonerates Obama. At most, it exhonerates the people who voted for him. |
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