Korean Job Discussion Forums

[JD_Tiberius]

I would like to say hello to everyone - veterans, newbies, fellow newbie lurkers, fellow Brits, and especially fellow Scots (if there are any in Korea...).

After a lengthy period of lurking in the darkest corners of this forum I have finally decided to make my first post. I should say a bit about myself first though. I am a 22 year old Scottish male, 5' 6.5� (yes I know its short, but alas, it's the curse of being of gaelic blood), medium brown hair and blue eyes. I have an MA degree in Philosophy from one of the ancient universities of Scotland. The degree itself is an undergraduate degree but is officially accredited at Masters level.

I'm open-minded, respectful towards other cultures and like a challenge(that's actually an understatement...really). Also, in 2008 I did a three month stint in the USA, which I loved every moment of. I think I caught that damnable travel bug when I was over there as I have been wanting to experience life in other countries since I came back.

I've been doing a fair amount of research on the prospect of teaching in Korea. The FAQs board proved to be quite useful for a number of things, but I did notice that most of the topics linked to are from ye olde days of 2003/4, so I imagine that while most of it holds today, there are a few things which have changed over the years, but I digress.

I have also read many of the positive and negative stories on this board, especially the ones relating to the public schools. From what I gather, much of the negativity comes from either bad students, or hostile Korean staff. In the case of bad students, this is unlikely to faze me as I went to the third worst performing school in Scotland, I know full well that it's part of the job and it's something a teacher has to deal with as best as they can. It's not nice, but it's endemic to public schools throughout the world and not just Korea. On the subject of staff, I have read that the best way to keep on their good side is to do things with them, such as taking part in after work soju drinking sessions/ norebangs and in general participating in their culture. That doesn't bother me � I'm a Scot, drinking ourselves stupid while �singing� out of tune songs on Rockband/middle of the street at midnight is what we do, so I should find a common ground with some Koreans there

Anyway I have a few questions that I hope someone can answer:

1) As you can probably guess, I'm looking to apply to one of the public school programmes in time for the Autumn/fall season. I know that I can do EPIK through the Korean Consulate in Edinburgh, not sure about the other two, but I know that Footprints does recruiting in the UK for GEPIK and SMOE. Would it be wise to apply for all three programmes, one directly, and two through the recruiter?
City wise, at the moment I'm not too fussed, as long as its at least a medium-sized city and that its possible to get an internet connection hooked up quickly to keep in contact with family and friends. Night life would of course be great, but its not essential. I cannot deny though that the sheer size of supersized city like Seoul scares me a little. I stayed on Manhattan island in NYC for a week and was bricking it, but that was my first ever experience of living in a city of more than 0.5-1million people, so it was normal to feel like that( most of my time in the US was spent in Boston, working).

2) With an MA should I be looking a bit higher, such as Universities and their ilk?
I have seen some a few others with an MA being pointed to the University jobs, but those people are often in their late 20s and early 30s. My concern there is that I am probably too young for that, having just left university myself.

3) Are there any Scots here who could tell me a bit about their experiences in Korea?


Many Thanks.

[blackjack]

One important thing about korea is not to compare them with cities back home.

A city of 200,000 here is a tiny little backwater with little to no diversity and nothing to do,(okay a slight exaggeration). Back home that would be the third largest city with plenty to do

You may want to try to aim for gyeonggido and one of the satellite cities, anyang, sanbon, gunpo, suwon, gwanak, gwachon, these are all to the south of seoul but there is also bundang to the south east, or incheon to the west.

These places give a nice compromise between seoul and the countryside

[air76]

Going out drinking with your colleagues is easier said than done...it has nothing to do with holding your liquor, and everything to do with hanging out with people who will drive you absolutely batty. There are many people on here who will argue the contrary, but for me, going out with co-workers is generally not worth the free food and booze. The first few times it's OK, and of course there are exceptions, but overall I think that socializing with your fellow staff is more work than pleasure. Especially outside of the big cities, your fellow teachers may not speak English at all, sometimes even the English teachers don't really speak English.

Again, you will find a lot of posts on here with people who disagree, but I think that starting out you're better off with a medium sized town (300-600,000), in a town that size you will generally find that the foreigner community is more tight-knit, you will make friends much more quickly as it is more of a family environment. In a town of 300,000 there are generally at least 100 teachers, so there are enough foreigners there that you can find like-minded folk to hang out with but few enough foreigners that people stop and say hello when they see you. A lot of people argue that the only place to live in Korea is in Seoul, and if you want to most accurately recreate life in a Western country, this is certainly the case (don't get me wrong, it's nothing like a Western city, but you would have a better chance of recreating more aspects of one)...in Seoul you can buy more imported goods, there is a foreigner district where the bars all sell imported beer, there are far more international restaurants, etc. But in a town of 300,000+ there will always be at least one foreigner bar, a place you can go on the weekends and at least find 5-10 people to drink with.

Concerning your question about university...I think that it would be nearly impossible to jump straight into a university with no experience and while living overseas, especially at your age. In general universities require face-to-face interviews, and while there are exceptions, generally the only ones that would hire you without a face-to-face interview are crappy schools that would require that you had quite a bit of teaching experience. Age is also a big factor with the universities, we had a professor who was 24 at our school and he said that it took him forever to find a school that would hire someone so young. That being said...with one year experience and a Masters, you will definitely be able to move up to a university after one year if you're willing to move anywhere in the country. Universities put WAYYYYY too much importance on Masters degrees, a lot of schools would take someone with 1 year of experience with no teacher training whatsoever with a Masters in Finance over a teacher with a CELTA and 5 years experience. So yeah, I wouldn't waste your time applying to universities just yet, and the hiring season is pretty much over anyhow. Speaking of which, if you want to move to uni next year, you need to get a job that starts at the beginning of March or September, because 95% of all uni jobs start either March 1st or September 1st. Either that or you have to convince your school to let you leave early (which means losing your bonus) or let you extend for just a few months so that you finish up before the university school year starts. In my opinion, university is the only way to go...it's like a completely different world.

I am not from Scotland, but one of my best friends here is, and here is the advice that I would imagine he would give:

1. Bring as many salt and vinegar crisps as you can, they are not available here
2. Be forewarned that after a year's time you will be calling football soccer and saying "awesome" all the time

I tried to refrain, but that is classic that you mentioned the extra 1/2 inch.

[Dude Ranch]

[Oliver]

Hi there, I'm a fellow Scot who has taught in Korea last year and is in the process of returning. I also recieved my MA degree from one of the ancient Universities of Scotland - Aberdeen.

For the sake of E2 Visa processing your MA degree is the equivalent to a BA. Some recruiters may ask you to confirm this. If they do just tell them that immigration know about the Scottish Undergraduate MA.

It's good that you have done some research before coming to Korea. However, Korea is very very different than back home and no amount of research will prepare you. It is best you come here with an open mind. Don't abandon your morals though, if you think that something is out of line or if you think you are being taken advantage of just say.

Every school is different so you don't know what it will be like until you actually start teaching there. It is a good idea to speak to the current native teacher (if they have one) before signing up. They'll answer any questions which you may have about the school, staff or pupils, for example.

I'd say it's a good idea to be friendly and civil with staff. However, this would be the same in any job back home. It is a good thing to get involved in school activities too. This shows that you are interested in student needs and that you are not just there to make up the numbers.

I'd be very concerned if other teachers were having regular after school soju/noraebang sessions. Regular heavy drinking and partying does not go well with being a responsible teacher. There will be school nights out, I'm sure. But these will tend to be special occasion, rather than regular heavy drinking soju sessions. Or at least they should be.

I'd advise you to stick to a public school. That could be through GEPIK or EPIK. Without experience it's gonna be hard to teach in Seoul. Seeing as you are not in Korea and not in a position to talk to schools directly you will need to go through a recruiter. Worknplay were good to me when I first went to Korea. They are a company I'd reccommend to you.

Be specific with recruiters about where you want to be. For example, if you want to be in a medium city say that. Don't let them try and push you into taking something you don't want. Be persistant.

Just to be clear, your MA is not a postgraduate MA, you shouldn't really be looking at teaching at a University. Over time after some experience and a Postgraduate MA you may want to think about teaching at a University. I'm not a fan of people who try to pretend that the Scottish undergraduate MA is a postgraduate MA. It is a whole level below.

As a Scot Korea has been good to me. Over time you'll find many similarities between Koreans and Scots, actually. Be careful not to drink too much. The food is great and the people are great.

Best of luck,

Oliver

[hellofaniceguy]

And here's to one of the great Scot's of all time, Sir Sean Connery! And I am sure there are many more, but I am ignorant of Scottish history.
As other's have already posted, many folks from Great Britain are teaching in the public school system.
It's the luck of the draw and how you click with the people in charge of hiring.

[Scamps]

[air76]

Where can you buy them? I hate them but my girlfriend loves them.

What's available in Seoul and outside of Seoul are also two very different worlds....although I think it's pretty easy to get by here nowadays. We lived here back in 2004 and is incredible how many more imported goods are available now.

I disagree about not trying to pass off your UK MA as a post-grad MA....if they don't ask you then there is no need to clarify.

[Oliver]

The thing is though you are required to have a BA to legally work in Korea. The Scottish MA is on a par with other undergraduate degrees. Most places will ask about it when they see that it reads MA. It's up to you whethar you want to be creative in your responses. If you lie that's up to you.

The Scottish Credit and Qualifications Framework is clear in its descriptions. An ordinary degree or MA is level 9, a BA or MA with honours is level 10 and a Postgraduate Masters is level 11.

http://www.scqf.org.uk/AbouttheFramework/Levels.aspx

[morrisonhotel]

[chica_fille]

Fellow Scots -YAS - I am from Glasgow.

Just currently applying for my first teacher jobs just now.

So not got any useful info for you but thought I would say hello

[Scamps]

[litebear]

I'm from Glasgow and live in Busan. I work for a hagwon and I live in a very central area. I only have a BA, no teaching experience and no TEFL qual of any kind. Only been here two months but I have enjoyed it so far.

If you have any specific questions drop me a PM.

[JD_Tiberius]

Thanks for all the replies so far!

Blackjack: I'm a bit surprised that a city of 200,000 can feel tiny, but I think I can understand why given how work centred Korea is said to be in comparison to somewhere like the UK. If everyone is in work for most of the day the I can imagine that it makes small cities feel like hamlets or ghost towns. I am actually glad that two people in this topic have already came forward with opposing viewpoints about life in small cities as it means I can get an idea of what the pros and cons might be. I must say though, I actually like the idea though of living in a satellite city of Seoul as it seems a fair trade off, especially when the capital is just a subway trip away.


Air76: haha, isn't that the same with work colleagues everywhere though? There's always a few that are completely bonkers and want to make you stab your eyeballs out, but alas its a duty that must be done....sadly. Free food and booze might be enticing, depending on how appetizing the food is though

I don't think I would be too bothered about trying to recreate a western lifestyle, The occasional western luxury every once in a while might be nice, but its not something I would be expecting to have access to. I like cooking and am quite good at Anglo-Indian and afro-Portuguese dishes, so in worst case scenario I bring a few bags of spices with me if I ever feel the urge to eat "western". If all else fails I can improvise by making a curry out of anything I see, even the fabled Kimchi

I tend to use football and soccer interchangeably depending on who I'm talking to, its something I had to adapt to while being over in the US at the height of Euro 2008. I have kind of got bored of football in general though in the past few years though due to the perpetual vapidity of the Scottish Premier league. it was actually looking interesting a few months back when Rangers looked like they were going to go bust and the smaller teams came within spitting distance of the top spot, then Rangers just had to somehow survive, and along with Celtic, crush any hope of the league ever becoming interesting again.

and about the 1/2 inch.... Haha, well I could do what most other people on the west coast of Scotland do, and round up the height, but that would be cheating!

Oliver: Cool, I'm graduate from Glasgow Uni. I always remember the Aberdeen Uni people as being good to play against at sports. My lacrosse captain at University always said that if there was one team that we could beat, it was Aberdeen. Though that didn't stop them from owning us most of the time, with the exception being during a freshers tournament in 2008 when we played a team full of vets against Aberdeen's rookie squad...

I relieved to hear from a scot who has been out there, you have my thanks for clearing up much of what I perceived to be a grey area surrounding Undergraduate Masters degrees such as the Scottish/Oxbridge MA and British MSci.

I'm actually quite curious about the schools activities that you mentioned, the activities that I have heard about are primarily the summer/winter camps and sports day, but are there any other major ones I should look up? And in terms of school activities, does the English teacher get any leeway in creating after school activities to help a select few improve on their English skills. Its just something that I remember teachers did with the brightest pupils at my old school in subjects like Mathematics and Economics. Personally I think the extra practice sessions run by a teacher (who cared about the students enough to use their own time for it) worked wonders for me. I don't suppose that would be viable in Korea though as students usually attend hagwons right after school.

Its also good to know that the after-school social sessions are not as regular as many of the negative stories make out, though I suspect it varies from school to school, and probably shares an inverse correlation with quality of the teachers. For it is as you rightly said, responsible teachers should not be getting drunk on the night before school. Working in a normal job with a hangover is an experience most sane people don't ever want to repeat. I can only imagine its ten times worse when teaching is the job.
I do like to think that I am past the party animal stage of life though , and technically have been since I was 20. The occasional weekend night out is always good for unwinding though.
I know there's been cases involving a few frat-boys from North America going over to Korea and then going partying every night, with no regard for the education of their pupils, which in turn leads to the reputation of the English teaching community being sullied. I can say with a golden guarantee that I would have no intention of falling into that path of stupidity. Its not in my nature and I'm too duty bound to even think of betraying the school or students trust in that manner.


About the similarities, I have actually been thinking that as I read these boards. The thought "My god, these folk must be our long lost cousins!" has crossed my mind no less than 13 times.

morrisonhotel: Cool! It's encouraging to hear about other Scots who are over there and enjoying it. How easy did you feel it was to settle in to life there and do you miss anything in particular from home?

chica_fille : Awesome, another Glaswegian! Rangers or Celtic? jk :p
I wish you all the best in your job hunt.
If I may ask, what got you interested in teaching in Korea in the first place?

Litebear: Thanks! I will do later when I get back from work


Thank you again to everyone who has replied so far, you have all been very helpful.

[Oliver]

The best advice I can give you is to just get out there and get stuck in.

No amount of browsing Daves ESL Cafe will prepare you for what Korea has to offer.

Get stuck in and learn it for yourself.

Good luck,

Oliver