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The unintended consequences of having us here?
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Olivencia



Joined: 08 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:59 am    Post subject: The unintended consequences of having us here? Reply with quote

By embracing globalization Korea has had thousands of native English teachers in their country in their quest to learn to communicate in English. I was wondering what were (and are) the unintended consequences of that decision that Korea has a difficult time accepting. Mixed marriages? Too much exposure to foreign ways of thiniking and lifestyle? etc etc?
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IlIlNine



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big changes happened at around the time of the '88 Olympics.

Western Toilets, English road signs, Lining Up, etc.

How about western religion?

Also, with more foreigners here, a lot of the 'bad habits' Koreans have have been exposed - prostitution being a big one.
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janafromfrance



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think it has given them more stress. I was taken out to an 'Italian' restaurant by a group of mothers today for lunch. They kept asking me what to do while we ate, it seemed as if they thought I was going to look down on them for doing something wrong. One of the mothers dropped a fork and almost had a panic attack. I think the 'teachers' here cause the koreans to think they have to perform in some special way to get positive feedback (some). I guess it would be like some small two year college
having a few Ivy league graduates come and start walking around the cafeteria. Idea
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember Korea has been bringing native speakers here for over 100 years. As of this year the first foreigner hired to teach english here was 127 years ago, and the first school opened by a foreigner was 125 years ago.

so the time frame for change might be a lot longer than you're thinking.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

janafromfrance wrote:
They kept asking me what to do while we ate, it seemed as if they thought I was going to look down on them for doing something wrong. One of the mothers dropped a fork and almost had a panic attack. I think the 'teachers' here cause the koreans to think they have to perform in some special way to get positive feedback


I think its cute that they are so paranoid about what foreigners think. To be honest I love Koreans, although I have days when they drive me up the wall of course.
Ultimately I think they really are looking for a face-saving way to change to be inline with international (western) norms of behaviour. They've been made aware that foreigners think eating dog, talking with your mouth full and other stuff is unacceptable. It helps a lot if we extend the olive branch and try to conform to some of their standards of behaviour as well.
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans might seem a bit needy for the respect of other countries, just watch Arirang Channnel for 10 minutes if you don't believe that, but the affect of approx 30,000 foreign English teachers in Korea is zilch. We are not affecting Korean society in any other than a negligible way.
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drkalbi



Joined: 06 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A better standard of living.
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sarbonn



Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, the ESL presence is but a drop in the bucket when it comes to influence because there are so many different westerners represented here from so many different places that the numbers kind of push each other out away from any direct influence. I agree that the biggest influence probably came before the 1988 Olympics, and I was here during that time, and I could see the changes taking place almost before my eyes. But I believe that influence came from US GIs much more than the ESL community because for the most part, that's who influences them the most. Or at least who did.
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Chambertin



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: Gunsan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we may be missing something.
It is not what influence we have on them, it is what they do with the influence of us being here.

The culture will take upon itself how to sort us and our influences out. Opinions about marriages, cultural misunderstandings and etiquette are all spread through popular culture. So even if we have an affect on the culture the true measure is what the culture as a whole accepts about that influence.

Even though almost every kid in Korea has an opportunity to interact with a forgiver on a weekly if not daily basis they are amazed to see us in the streets. We dont register as people, but talk to most people and the day they realized police or firefighters are people is an event in their memory.

Many of my students thank more for one thing, I took away the fear or nervousness they felt around foreigners. I might suck as a teacher, but even after notebooks filled with tips, tricks and other tasks that is pretty consistent as their number one appreciation.

So the side effects are what the culture chooses to take from the whole, we can only try to make little advances in truth as we hope we don�t become another casualty to fan death in our efforts to fit in, or just get by.

Make ripples, as waves get blocked by the sea wall. Ripples can float through the open gates and spread through the harbor.
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing at all compared to the impact of so many young people spending time abroad in other countries. Especially since these young people are of the social class that will be running the show in a few years.
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Nierlisse



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chambertin wrote:

Many of my students thank more for one thing, I took away the fear or nervousness they felt around foreigners. I might suck as a teacher, but even after notebooks filled with tips, tricks and other tasks that is pretty consistent as their number one appreciation.


This is what I'm thinking too. My HS students and my husband's students haven't had much exposure to foreigners before. Hopefully some of the negative things the Korean media says or stereotypes that already exist in the back of people's minds are helped by us being here and being good teachers. If not good teachers, at least friendly, helpful, etc.

I think if my students don't remember a thing they learned in my class, but at least remember me as someone who was kind to them, I'll be happy. And hopefully this generation of Koreans will grow up with good memories and ideas about foreigners. That can't be a bad thing.
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dirving



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IlIlNine wrote:
The big changes happened at around the time of the '88 Olympics.

Western Toilets, English road signs, Lining Up, etc.

How about western religion?

Also, with more foreigners here, a lot of the 'bad habits' Koreans have have been exposed - prostitution being a big one.


Nah, the U.N. and U.S. military as well as missionaries knew about this very corrupt society way before the '88 Olympics or the increased number of expats living here in the late 1990s and earlier part of last decade.
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dirving



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMO wrote:
Nothing at all compared to the impact of so many young people spending time abroad in other countries. Especially since these young people are of the social class that will be running the show in a few years.


People like Madoka do not think that we'll ever amount to squat. He must be right because he's a very rich person.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sarbonn wrote:
I agree that the biggest influence probably came before the 1988 Olympics.


The olympics themselves were pretty momentous I think from the point of Korea suddenly coming under the spotlight as a modern nation yet being rebuffed by foreign non-acceptance of some of their ways e.g. eating dog.

There is a sort of paradox. You have this nation that has deliberately hidden from the world for millenia as a form of self-protection, the Hermit Kingdom...which through isolation has developed a fairly unique social system of manners and customs which no longer fit easily with the rest of the planet.
When suddenly throwing a "coming out" party, they are hurt that some guests do not like their table manners and so decide to change or at least conceal them in order to gain acceptance.
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirving wrote:
JMO wrote:
Nothing at all compared to the impact of so many young people spending time abroad in other countries. Especially since these young people are of the social class that will be running the show in a few years.


People like Madoka do not think that we'll ever amount to squat. He must be right because he's a very rich person.


i meant korean young people spending time abroad. I'll never run anything.
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