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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:17 am Post subject: |
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From the General Social Survey:
http://inductivist.blogspot.com/2008/01/which-american-ethnic-group-is-most.html
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Percent who say that Jews have contributed little to American society
Mexican 16.2
American Indian 14.0
Blacks 9.1
Italian 8.0
USA 5.8
Scottish 4.4
German 4.0
Irish 3.3
English/Welsh 3.3
Jewish 0.0
Percent who say that Jews have contributed the most to American society
Jewish 26.5
English/Welsh 14.6
Blacks 14.1
USA 12.1
Scottish 10.8
Mexican 10.8
German 10.3
Italian 10.0
Irish 9.9
American Indian 6.0 |
http://inductivist.blogspot.com/2006/11/many-blacks-say-that-jews-are.html
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The Survey of Chicago African Americans asked 639 blacks the following question: "Louis Farrakhan, the head of the Black Muslims may be a little extreme to describe Jews as 'blood suckers', but there's a lot of truth to it all the same. Do you agree strongly, agree somewhat, disagree somewhat or disagree strongly?"
One-third said they agree (strongly or somewhat). You're going to have to go to Stormfront.org to get a higher number than that.
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Kinda relevant, I guess. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
There are Irish Jews, Italian Jews, French Jews, American Jews. Jews can be atheist and still be Jewish. White or European is a fair comparison. |
There are also Irish Italians and so forth. So what? All you're pointing out is that ethnicities can be mixed, and often are. Jewish people almost invariably have additional ethnicities, but that doesn't change the overall point. Saying "I'm proud to be of Hebrew descent," is like saying, "I'm proud to be of Irish descent," not like saying, "I'm proud to be white."
| mises wrote: |
| I am not going to get into a conversation about the hierarchy of disallowed pride. I take issue with your use of "only". |
Okay. I'll grant you that if someone made the statement, "I'm proud to be white," they would receive scorn. I just don't think it's equivalent. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| banjois wrote: |
| This being said, a lot of legit criticism of Israeli policy immediately has "anti-semitic" thrown at it, too. |
This is true. Israel is not blameless, and should be held accountable for its actions. But that accountability should be based on the things it's genuinely done wrong, not the things that it has little choice about. Israel is a legally formed nation; people expecting it to just vanish have all ready revealed themselves to be beyond biased in their consideration of this nation.
People screaming to boycott Israel in particular are being somewhat ridiculous, unless they're also boycotting China, most of the Arab world, and a host of other nations. Accepting Saudi oil with Saudi Arabia's human rights record while boycotting Israel is just juvenille and thoughtless. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Let's keep it fair. "I'm proud to be Jewish," should be compared to, "I'm proud to be Irish," or "I'm proud to be Italian," or so forth. Put into that context, the Jew is far more likely to be the target of outrage as he gets accused of Zionism. |
Why? Being Jewish and being Zionist are not even necessarily related, as many people, including Jews Against Zionism, will tell you.
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Traditional Jews Are Not Zionists
Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Let's keep it fair. "I'm proud to be Jewish," should be compared to, "I'm proud to be Irish," or "I'm proud to be Italian," or so forth. Put into that context, the Jew is far more likely to be the target of outrage as he gets accused of Zionism. |
Why? Being Jewish and being Zionist are not even necessarily related, as many people, including Jews Against Zionism, will tell you. |
I don't know why, bacasper. I have no empathy for the bigots in question. That doesn't change the fact that they exist.
Hell, the core elements of Zionism aren't even all that unreasonable. The right to a homeland? The right to self-determination? Many of the people who oppose "Zionism" probably want most of the same things for Tibet. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Accepting Saudi oil with Saudi Arabia's human rights record while boycotting Israel is just juvenille and thoughtless. |
Except Saudi Arabia hasn't invaded a neighboring country, nor occupies another nation's land. It only oppresses its own people. 
Seriously though, that is a big reason why Israel gets so much flak in the developed world. On the other hand, if Israel were to leave the West Bank, and make peace with the Palestinians, I still think that the anti-semitism would be rampant in the Arab world. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Accepting Saudi oil with Saudi Arabia's human rights record while boycotting Israel is just juvenille and thoughtless. |
Except Saudi Arabia hasn't invaded a neighboring country, nor occupies another nation's land. It only oppresses its own people. |
China has. Russia has. America has (edit: to avoid any confusion, I admit the countries invaded in recent times weren't actually neighboring countries). That's three huge boycotts right there. So even if we're going to limit ourselves to an arbitrary invasion-based standard, there's still plenty to go on. And frankly, I think Israel had greater cause for its actions than America, Russia, or China did. A nation can only be expected to tolerate attacks from another "nation's" soil for so long before responding.
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Seriously though, that is a big reason why Israel gets so much flak in the developed world. |
I personally feel it's because Israel is seen as part of the "haves" while Palestinians are romanticized as "have nots." Nothing Israel does will ever be enough while it remains an economically viable nation faced with aggression from nations which are economic failures.
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| On the other hand, if Israel were to leave the West Bank, and make peace with the Palestinians, I still think that the anti-semitism would be rampant in the Arab world. |
Just so, and I think it would continue to face criticism in the developed world as well. Israel can't win with public relations, and I think its government realizes this. Is it any surprise, then, that they simply try to do the best they can with the situation they're in?
Last edited by Fox on Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ytuque
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Accepting Saudi oil with Saudi Arabia's human rights record while boycotting Israel is just juvenille and thoughtless. |
Except Saudi Arabia hasn't invaded a neighboring country, nor occupies another nation's land. It only oppresses its own people.
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Saudi Arabia is the origin of much of the world's Islamic extemism either by exporting its extreme version of Islam or of bankrolling extremists. |
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