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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Olivencia wrote: |
| I don't agree with #1. |
Okay, so at this point you're pro-slavery. And not just labor-based slavery; we're outright talking ownership of your own body here. Congratulations, you're now less morally advanced than many ancient peoples. Perhaps you'd fit in well in the Muslim world.
Olivenica: claiming other people have a greater right to your body than you do.
| Olivencia wrote: |
| Science says it is a human life. That is a fact. |
Agreed.
| Olivencia wrote: |
| Ethics: The taking of innocent human life is murder. That is a fact. |
No, it's not. This sort of black and white thinking, completely lacking nuance or comprehension, is simply the end result of years of letting your theological betters do your thinking for you.
| Olivencia wrote: |
| Get real? and logic isn't on my side?? What are you talking about? Look at those photos I have previously posted. It's "logical" to say..."oh that's ok"? |
I wonder if you understand the immense humor in what you just said. You literally go from insisting logic is on your side to making an emotional appeal -- almost the exact opposite of logic -- in the very next sentence. I wonder if you'll ever realize how much hateful, ignorant people like you hurt public perception of your religions. If you'll ever realize how many people are driven away from a faith they might have otherwise embraced because they see people like you shouting angrily and irrationally from within its ranks.
| Olivencia wrote: |
| Where do you get your ethics from? |
As soon as you started endorsing slavery as an ethical necessity, you proved you don't actually understand what ethics are anyway, so why on Earth would I even begin to explain something as complex and nuanced as this to you? Ask your preacher kiddo, maybe he can think it through for you. |
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Olivencia
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:58 am Post subject: |
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No you are pro-slavery in the sense that you don't give these babies a choice to live just like the slaves had no choice to be slaves.
An emotional appeal? Yeah what difference does it make with these babies getting their heads chopped off...if that fact doesn't persuade you then perhaps actually seeing it might..but sadly you just keep closing your eyes to the reality, that is the screams of the dying. Many Germans had the intellectual idea of what was going on in the concentration camps but when they were forced to see it at the end of WW2 then reality set in big time. Pick up the butchered remains of an abortion and let's see you say "hey it's not that bad" but since you care not of God you care not of His image..thus the slaughter continues.
Bye...from here for good. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Olivencia wrote: |
| No you are pro-slavery in the sense that you don't give these babies a choice to live just like the slaves had no choice to be slaves. |
This doesn't even make sense. You're just saying, "Nuh uh, you are!" now, without any actual thought or consideration. How can an abortion be enslavement; you can't enslave something that's dead. A baby has no choice about whether it lives or dies no matter what; if it lives, it lives by the choices of others. If it dies, it dies by the choices of others. That's just a simple fact; abortion doesn't enter into that equation.
| Olivencia wrote: |
| An emotional appeal? Yeah what difference does it make with these babies getting their heads chopped off...if that fact doesn't persuade you then perhaps actually seeing it might..but sadly you just keep closing your eyes to the reality, that is the screams of the dying. |
Again, do you even understand what you're typing? You imply that you don't think you're engaging in emotional appeals by saying, "An emotional appeal?" and then you go on to write out a text book emotional appeal.
| Olivencia wrote: |
| Many Germans had the intellectual idea of what was going on in the concentration camps but when they were forced to see it at the end of WW2 then reality set in big time. Pick up the butchered remains of an abortion and let's see you say "hey it's not that bad" but since you care not of God you care not of His image..thus the slaughter continues. |
I'm impressed you managed to work in a comparison to the Holocaust before fleeing from the thread. It's always so impressive when people try to politicize this plight for their own benefit. Truly compassionate.
| Olivencia wrote: |
| Bye...from here for good. |
We'll see. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Olivencia wrote: |
| I don't agree with #1. |
Okay, so at this point you're pro-slavery. And not just labor-based slavery; we're outright talking ownership of your own body here. Congratulations, you're now less morally advanced than many ancient peoples. Perhaps you'd fit in well in the Muslim world. |
In the case of rape, yes, it would be comparable to slavery. In every other instance, however, the best (or worst) comparison you could make would be to willing indentured servitude. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Olivencia wrote: |
| I don't agree with #1. |
Okay, so at this point you're pro-slavery. And not just labor-based slavery; we're outright talking ownership of your own body here. Congratulations, you're now less morally advanced than many ancient peoples. Perhaps you'd fit in well in the Muslim world. |
In the case of rape, yes, it would be comparable to slavery. In every other instance, however, the best (or worst) comparison you could make would be to willing indentured servitude. |
I won't contest that, but indentured servitude is considered by many to be morally impermissible on the same grounds as slavery, as it's really just slavery of a (generally) limited duration. The laws of the United States certainly reflect this. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Olivencia wrote: |
No one has the right to be inside your body-- When it comes to a baby...who says? You? Based on what?
This is about your cult. I'm dealing with scientific facts. Show me one place where I have cited any religious authority in this thread that says it is a human life or that it is murder. That is simply a strawman on your part.
Yeah I said I was leaving ...does that necessitate that I can't ever come back? No. |
So you DO know what a strawman is. Yet you employ them at will.
Christ, the irony. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| runthegauntlet wrote: |
| Olivencia wrote: |
No one has the right to be inside your body-- When it comes to a baby...who says? You? Based on what?
This is about your cult. I'm dealing with scientific facts. Show me one place where I have cited any religious authority in this thread that says it is a human life or that it is murder. That is simply a strawman on your part.
Yeah I said I was leaving ...does that necessitate that I can't ever come back? No. |
So you DO know what a strawman is. Yet you employ them at will.
Christ, the irony. |
He doesn't actually know what a strawman is, because I wasn't strawmanning him. I was just attacking a position he holds but wanted to pretend he didn't within the context of the conversation in hopes of strengthening his position. It obviously didn't help him much. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| runthegauntlet wrote: |
| Olivencia wrote: |
No one has the right to be inside your body-- When it comes to a baby...who says? You? Based on what?
This is about your cult. I'm dealing with scientific facts. Show me one place where I have cited any religious authority in this thread that says it is a human life or that it is murder. That is simply a strawman on your part.
Yeah I said I was leaving ...does that necessitate that I can't ever come back? No. |
So you DO know what a strawman is. Yet you employ them at will.
Christ, the irony. |
He doesn't actually know what a strawman is, because I wasn't strawmanning him. I was just attacking a position he holds but wanted to pretend he didn't within the context of the conversation in hopes of strengthening his position. It obviously didn't help him much. |
Yeah, once I reread that I realized I'd given him too much credit.
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Olivencia wrote: |
I am stating that it is a scientific fact that it is a human life.
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No, science defines it as a foetus, a human one perhaps, but not a human life. A human life is too broad in definition. If we consider a foetus a human life, when do we stop? Embryo? Zygote? Sperm?
The moral arguments are of little concern to me right now. If you want to reduce abortions then increase sex education and the availability of contraceptives including the morning after pill.
You could also consider if separating conjoined twins is right if it leads to the death of one. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
The moral arguments are of little concern to me right now. If you want to reduce abortions then increase sex education and the availability of contraceptives including the morning after pill.
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No! Select the elite through a battery of tests and sterilize the rest! |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| I would have far more respect for the pro-life faction if they cared one iota about the quality of life these babies will have after being born. If you want to prevent abortions, why not work towards universal healthcare so that prenatal care and the actual birth will be affordable for everyone? Subsidized childcare or increased pregnancy and parental leave would make keeping the child a more feasible option. If you really want to prevent abortions, give women more attractive choices, rather than taking them away. Otherwise you just come off looking like misogynists who want to strip women of their rights. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/28/scott-roeder-abortion-doctor-killer
Saw this on the Guardian website, and I thought it might be of use here. The anti-abortionists don't seem to see the irony/hyprocisy of killing abortion doctors.. |
Nor that of supporting the death penalty. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/28/scott-roeder-abortion-doctor-killer
Saw this on the Guardian website, and I thought it might be of use here. The anti-abortionists don't seem to see the irony/hyprocisy of killing abortion doctors.. |
Nor that of supporting the death penalty. |
Nor in supporting unnecessary killing via needless warfare. |
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