|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| What is your current educational status? |
| BA |
|
40% |
[ 28 ] |
| currently completing an MA by distance |
|
11% |
[ 8 ] |
| coursework MA |
|
21% |
[ 15 ] |
| MA by research/capstone project |
|
20% |
[ 14 ] |
| PhD in progress |
|
2% |
[ 2 ] |
| PhD |
|
4% |
[ 3 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 70 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:48 am Post subject: The Shape of Things to Come |
 |
|
I work at a small university in the countryside. Eight teachers. Two have an MA. Four will be working on a distance MA starting next semester. Another starts in Sept.
It seems to me that an ever increasing number of teachers are completing MAs via distance education. What does this mean for people working in Korea? How will it effect you, if at all?
In a future when experienced teachers with a relevant MA are a dime-a-dozen what can individuals do to make themselves more employable?
What other changes to the Korean EFL market do you foresee that will affect us? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| What data are you looking at that leads you to believe MA holders will be a dime a dozen? Linkage? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Old Gil wrote: |
| What data are you looking at that leads you to believe MA holders will be a dime a dozen? Linkage? |
One doesn't need to look at data to see the writing on the wall, do they?
MAs are becoming the new BA in terms of what one needs to get a decent teaching job. This isn't just true in ESL, but also within the international school circuit as well.
I can see online MAs getting less credit than traditional ones due to employers needing some way to weed out all the applicants they get with MAs and similar years experience.
Or, Korea might actually get smart and only hire those who publish... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Old Gil wrote: |
| What data are you looking at that leads you to believe MA holders will be a dime a dozen? Linkage? |
This is just my opinion, based on the number of individuals that are known to me that either hold an MA, or are currently working towards one.
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| Or, Korea might actually get smart and only hire those who publish... |
I don't think this would work. Most MAs have never held a poster session or given a presentation at a peer-reviewed conference, much less published a paper in a peer-reviewed journal. So, this wouldn't help separate the wheat from the chaff, since most MAs haven't published, and those that have most likely did their MA residentially.
I think a hierarchy will develop in which MAs with a record of publications will be hired preferentially, followed by MAs done residentially, trailed by MAs by distance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I think a hierarchy will develop in which MAs with a record of publications will be hired preferentially, followed by MAs done residentially, trailed by MAs by distance. |
I believe this hierarchy has already been established. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spyro25
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
good thread for once.
lets see
BA in english - check
MA in TESOL - check
F2-1 visa - check
should be all you need? but as you say, competition is getting fierce....
in korea, you will never really be anybody until you have your ph.d. the difference between kang-sa and kyosunim is chalk and cheese here. if you are not a gyo-su then you aren't anyone to the Koreans.
thats why i'm now a ph.d in progress, and I suggest other MA holders do the same. without the ph.d, i seriously doubt most MA holders will have the quality of writing or forethought to pull off peer-reviewed journal entries in top 100 journals.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| spyro25 wrote: |
good thread for once.
lets see
BA in english - check
MA in TESOL - check
F2-1 visa - check
should be all you need? but as you say, competition is getting fierce....
in korea, you will never really be anybody until you have your ph.d. the difference between kang-sa and kyosunim is chalk and cheese here. if you are not a gyo-su then you aren't anyone to the Koreans.
thats why i'm now a ph.d in progress, and I suggest other MA holders do the same. without the ph.d, i seriously doubt most MA holders will have the quality of writing or forethought to pull off peer-reviewed journal entries in top 100 journals.... |
I wouldn't want to stereotype, but it would seem to me those who do residential MA/Ph.D programs get access to more resources to publish. I don't just mean in terms of libraries either. There is a sense of competition when you are on campus that you cannot get while working and doing an online degree.
IMO it is the spirit of competition that drives people initially to try and get published in top 100 journals.
I am sure there are those who do online programs and are able to publish. However, the way I see it is realistic: people who work full-time and study in their off time rarely have time for the "extras" like pushing themselves to their academic limits. If one is doing this to keep a job they have to open doors to new jobs within Korea, and Korea does not require publications, where is the incentive to publish?
Once it gets more competitive, I believe more people will publish. I also believe it will be better for the industry as a whole, as the propagation of ideas will spread and open up new debates and approaches. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A lot of countries (most of the Middle East) values a distance degree about as highly as they value the Bible.
For people like me and many others, unfortunately, an F-2 visa is a better qualification than a Masters.
If you have both, you're rocking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BoholDiver wrote: |
A lot of countries (most of the Middle East) values a distance degree about as highly as they value the Bible.
For people like me and many others, unfortunately, an F-2 visa is a better qualification than a Masters.
If you have both, you're rocking. |
it depends on the university you choose. there are some "universities" offering distance programs and that's it (probably based in a warehouse somewhere). however, you can find legitimate universities that have distance programs, in addition to their regular on-site undergraduate and graduate programs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thiuda wrote: |
Most MAs have never held a poster session or given a presentation at a peer-reviewed conference, much less published a paper in a peer-reviewed journal. So, this wouldn't help separate the wheat from the chaff, since most MAs haven't published, and those that have most likely did their MA residentially.
I think a hierarchy will develop in which MAs with a record of publications will be hired preferentially, followed by MAs done residentially, trailed by MAs by distance. |
I disagree. Korea is a place where practical applications supercede theoretical applications and universities, private schools, public schools, and hogwons alike think accordingly. The vast majority of places in Korea really don't care if their instructors publish; they're just looking for someone to teach the classes. Sure, a few publications help with the interview and with landing a job. However, they are not requirements of the teachers.
The bottom line with us "professors" is that we are here to do a job and that is to teach (and les we forget that we are "professors" because our contracts state as such. However, back in North America, Britain, etc., "professor" is a much more valued word that isn't readily given to someone with just an MA or MS. The truth is that we do the same thing that instructors do. We shouldn't let the titles get to our heads...I know you aren't like that and I am not directing that at you). We aren't here to publish as that is a requirement for tenure. We aren't tenured-track, at least the majority of us, and the vast majority of positions are practical.
T, you and I differ greatly in terms of our background. I focused, purposely, on more of a practical approach during my masters; you focused more on the theoretical approach. My publications reflect as such (I've never seen your publications so I wouldn't know about you). Therefore, I assume your statement above is a direct reflection of your preference and not of the reality NESTs face in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FistFace
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Location: Peekaboo! I can see you! And I know what you do!
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thuida, really. Isn't this chest-beating in threads, where you feel the need to discuss your education vs. others at length, actually a manifestation of an inferiority complex?
Perhaps you should seek professional help? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
withnail
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul, South Korea.
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cubanlord wrote
| Quote: |
| Korea is a place where practical applications supercede theoretical applications |
With respect, I think you give most Korean Education decision makers a little too much credit. If this were really true, then Korean universities would not be preoccupied with MAs and even MA TESOLs for the lowly position of English instructor.(most of these have no practicum!)
They'd instead be seeking out trained and experienced classroom teachers. I mean veterans. Hagwon/high school combat veterans who have really come to grips with the nitty gritty of classroom pedagogy.
(Think ddeubl!)
I say this because in most cases the extent of our remit (we know it and they know it) is relatively low level basic English classroom teaching not content based academic lecturing for which many of us are qualified.
A large portion of university English teaching is done with freshmen/sophomores (not exclusively of course, but in the main) in which the courses are not taken that seriously, but rather hoops that the government makes uni students jump through.
Despite all one's qualifications and expertise, isn't it surprising that often after you're appointed, they are looking to micromanage you as if you didn't know much!!  i.e. force you to use such and such a book, treat you like someone who needs to be monitored, tell you how to grade.
You don't really need a TESOL academic for much Uni English teaching but someone who is good at the chalk face, nitty gritty of classroom pedagogy.
You don't need to know your Krashens from your Spolskys.
As you know, it's a different set of skills that you get from practical EFL teacher training courses and workshops and feedback from other EFL professionals.
If you are a university teacher I really believe they want you to have an MA for the purposes of the university's general credibility and standing. It's not really about suitability for the actual job of work you'll be doing.
Until you have a Phd, I think you're just considered a contract worker English teacher and not much more. I hate to say it but I really think we are not very highly valued and easily replaceable.
We also know that many Korean universities often value a person with a MA degree irrespective of its major.
In hiring sessions, Korean hirers are not really concerned with classroom craft, despite the common requirement for a demo lesson...
(I think the demo lesson is really just to see that you're not a scary monster or a weirdo that the kids can't understand).
I also think they do not really have the knowledge to judge someone's actual pedagogical skill particularly from a Western (dare I say modern) perspective.
Rather it seems that Korean universities are concerned with face validity.
Of course, I mean in general...
What do you think?
Last edited by withnail on Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:57 pm; edited 4 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ytuque
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: The Shape of Things to Come |
|
|
| Thiuda wrote: |
I work at a small university in the countryside. Eight teachers. Two have an MA. Four will be working on a distance MA starting next semester. Another starts in Sept.
It seems to me that an ever increasing number of teachers are completing MAs via distance education. What does this mean for people working in Korea? How will it effect you, if at all?
In a future when experienced teachers with a relevant MA are a dime-a-dozen what can individuals do to make themselves more employable?
What other changes to the Korean EFL market do you foresee that will affect us? |
Most unis consider the reputation of the school that awarded the diploma. My uni has turned away quite a few MA's and PhD's that were done online. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
withnail
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul, South Korea.
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree too. In my current position, one of the first questions was whether my MA was online or at home. The next was where was it from.
I think (and also I hope) that in the future Korean university hirers will seek to get at a teacher's practical skills as much as their theoretical knowledge.
Thus far it seems all about appearances, famous university names, looks etc.
You know, the more I observe, the more I think seasoned high school English teachers would be ideal for teaching English in universities. Down on the floor, with large classes, they'd probably teach rings round the MATESOLs.
Those with MATESOLS etc would be better off teaching TEE, ESP, EAP etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| withnail wrote: |
I agree too. In my current position, one of the first questions was whether my MA was online or at home. The next was where was it from.
I think (and also I hope) that in the future Korean university hirers will seek to get at a teacher's practical skills as much as their theoretical knowledge.
Thus far it seems all about appearances, famous university names, looks etc.
You know, the more I observe, the more I think seasoned high school English teachers would be ideal for teaching English in universities. Down on the floor, with large classes, they'd probably teach rings round the MATESOLs.
Those with MATESOLS etc would be better off teaching TEE, ESP, EAP etc. |
I think the same way too. However, since I have yet to get an MA and only have a B.Ed, they won't give me the time of day. I would love it if I could teach at a university camp in the summer as they start a month earlier than the kids camps and I actually prefer to teach older kids than younger kids.
I am used to dealing with high school kids. I am now on my 7th year of teaching exclusively high school aged students. There isn't a hell of a lot of difference between high school students and university freshman and sophomores.
I think universities feel they MUST have an MA regardless of major. I guess the same is true of lecturers in Canadian universities too. However, unlike Korea, Canada does not make first and second year students take a second language as a compulsory part of their graduation requirements. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
