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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: Schwarzenegger: send inmates to Mexico |
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So what if they'll be out of the jurisdiction of the Constitution?
Send California inmates to Mexico, says Schwarzenegger
Mon Jan 25, 8:45 pm ET
SAN FRANCISCO (AFP) � Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger suggested California could ease its crowded prison system by sending thousands of undocumented inmates to specially built jails in Mexico.
Speaking to reporters at the Sacramento Press Club, Schwarzenegger said California could ease its strained finances by a billion dollars if 20,000 illegal immigrants currently held in the state were housed across the border.
"I think that we can do so much better in the prison system alone if we can go and take, inmates for instance, the 20,000 inmates that are illegal immigrants that are here and get them to Mexico," Schwarzenegger said.
"Think about it -- if California gives Mexico the money. Not 'Hey, you take care of them, these are your citizens'. No. Not at all.
"We pay them to build the prison down in Mexico. And then we have those undocumented immigrants down there in prison. It would half the costs to build the prison and run the prison. We could save a billion dollars right there that could go into higher education."
Schwarzenegger's remarks come as California prepares for the latest in a long line of state budget crises.
Schwarzenegger declared a fiscal emergency earlier this month, warning severe cuts were necessary to stem a 19.9-billion-dollar deficit.
California has some of the most overcrowded prisons in the United States, with an estimated 170,000 inmates housed in facilities designed for 100,000 people, according to 2007 figures.
Schwarzenegger said he believed the financial burden of California's prisons could be eased if the private sector moved into the industry.
"I think that there is no reason why we should have just state employees and public prisons," Schwarzenegger said. "Why shouldn't we have private prisons and private prisons competing with public prisons?
"I don't want to go and get rid of public prisons, not at all. It's not an attack on their labor union even though they may take it as such. |
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Are the citizens or residents?
If not, I'm fine with them being deported - in whatever form. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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How about instead of trying to think up schemes to save money on prisons, we save money by simply locking fewer people up? Taking drugs out of the area of criminal offense alone would have a substantial impact. I'd also be partial to the idea of no longer sending white collar criminals to jail. There are ways to punish them that don't involve making tax payers pay for them, and they don't actually present a danger to others. There are a number of ways we could sanction such individuals without sending them to prison.
Prison shouldn't be about punishment, it should be about public safety. |
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ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Location: I drink therefore I am!
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Captain Corea wrote: |
Are the citizens or residents?
If not, I'm fine with them being deported - in whatever form. |
Undocumented implies illegal since referring to people as "illegal aliens" is not politically correct.
It may have the secondary effect of encouraging the family and friends of these criminals to move back to Mexico as well.
On the other hand, Mexico is rewarded for sending criminals north illegally and receiving money and jobs for having them repatriated, and California loses jobs but saves a Billion or so per year. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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California's positions on illegal immigration have always confused me. Turn a blind eye to the guy working his ass off to keep our domestic goods cheap? In the short term, sure, why not. Yeah, he's taking advantage of our system (as are we), but at least he's contributing to our society. Offer him a driver's license? Now you're using state funds to help him get around immigration laws. If that's the route you're taking, why have those immigration laws in the first place? Imprison him in US jails for crimes committed in the US (not including his illegal entry)? Now we have an individual who has illegally entered our country and proven himself to be a detriment to our society by committing additional crimes within our borders (and likely against our citizens), and you're going to waste vast amounts of state funds to lock him up in US jails instead of deporting him?  |
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ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Location: I drink therefore I am!
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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geldedgoat wrote: |
California's positions on illegal immigration have always confused me. Turn a blind eye to the guy working his ass off to keep our domestic goods cheap? In the short term, sure, why not. Yeah, he's taking advantage of our system (as are we), but at least he's contributing to our society. Offer him a driver's license? Now you're using state funds to help him get around immigration laws. If that's the route you're taking, why have those immigration laws in the first place? Imprison him in US jails for crimes committed in the US (not including his illegal entry)? Now we have an individual who has illegally entered our country and proven himself to be a detriment to our society by committing additional crimes within our borders (and likely against our citizens), and you're going to waste vast amounts of state funds to lock him up in US jails instead of deporting him?  |
Deportation to Mexico does not really work well since the border is so porous. The deportee can be back in the US in a few hours. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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ytuque wrote: |
Deportation to Mexico does not really work well since the border is so porous. The deportee can be back in the US in a few hours. |
I know, and that would be another one of those confuddling issues. Why in the hell have we not already (especially in the wake of all this terrorism hysteria and dramatic increase in Mexican gang activity) strengthened border security to at least the point of semi-usefulness? It's yet another one of those sensible money-sinks that get passed over in favor of idiotic projects like full-body airport scanners and Middle East wars. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Probably because few politicians really want to stop illegal immigration. It's just a talking point conservatives use to rally their base and distract from real issues. Hiring illegal aliens has all the benefits of exporting jobs, with few of the downsides. The only Americans actually hurt by illegal immigration are the people in the extreme lower class who might have been hired in their place, and needless to say, they aren't exactly a powerful voting block from a political perspective. |
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ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Location: I drink therefore I am!
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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geldedgoat wrote: |
ytuque wrote: |
Deportation to Mexico does not really work well since the border is so porous. The deportee can be back in the US in a few hours. |
I know, and that would be another one of those confuddling issues. Why in the hell have we not already (especially in the wake of all this terrorism hysteria and dramatic increase in Mexican gang activity) strengthened border security to at least the point of semi-usefulness? It's yet another one of those sensible money-sinks that get passed over in favor of idiotic projects like full-body airport scanners and Middle East wars. |
Politicians pandering to key constituents: liberals, hispanics, and business groups which require cheap labor.
If you are white and against illegal immigration, you will be denounced as a racist. If you are not white and against illegal immigration, you will be said to have sold out.
Don't expect any progress on illegal immigration. |
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pkang0202

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Fox wrote: |
How about instead of trying to think up schemes to save money on prisons, we save money by simply locking fewer people up? Taking drugs out of the area of criminal offense alone would have a substantial impact. I'd also be partial to the idea of no longer sending white collar criminals to jail. There are ways to punish them that don't involve making tax payers pay for them, and they don't actually present a danger to others. There are a number of ways we could sanction such individuals without sending them to prison.
Prison shouldn't be about punishment, it should be about public safety. |
Wow, this really takes the cake. So, lets NOT send crack dealers in Compton to prison. Because Crack dealers are all harmless. NONE of them carry firearms or are affiliated with Gangs that murder people. And Bernie Madoff or Enron execs wouldn't go to jail either despite ruining thousands of people's lives.
There are other ways to punish them? I'm sure there are. You could force them to listen to Nancy Pelosi or Air America recordings all day. Then again, wouldn't that be cruel and unusual punishment? |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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pkang0202 wrote: |
Wow, this really takes the cake. So, lets NOT send crack dealers in Compton to prison. Because Crack dealers are all harmless. NONE of them carry firearms or are affiliated with Gangs that murder people. |
Newsflash kiddo: murdering people is a crime independent of dealing drugs. If you murder someone, obviously you should go to jail, because you're a murderer. Drug dealers who never murder people, assault people, and so forth are harmless, yes. Any harm done by drugs is self-inflicted.
pkang0202 wrote: |
And Bernie Madoff or Enron execs wouldn't go to jail either despite ruining thousands of people's lives. |
Seizing these men's ill gotten assets helps people. Locking these men up in prison helps no one. Complete seizure of ill-gotten wealth, massive fines, permanent probation, and public scrutiny would not only be sufficient to punish these men and make sure they don't reoffend, but actually be cheaper for the public.
Prison should be reserved for people who pose a direct physical threat to others. Other people can be delt with by means both more appropriate, and less expensive to the state. But don't bother yourself with any actual thought or consideration, just respond with outrage to anything that might change the current system. After all, it's clearly quite effective, right? |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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pkang0202 wrote: |
Wow, this really takes the cake. So, lets NOT send crack dealers in Compton to prison. Because Crack dealers are all harmless. NONE of them carry firearms or are affiliated with Gangs that murder people. |
Aside from what Fox responded with, way to imply that carrying firearms is somehow a criminal behavior in itself. Apparently, that would make you the Democrat. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Street Magic wrote: |
pkang0202 wrote: |
Wow, this really takes the cake. So, lets NOT send crack dealers in Compton to prison. Because Crack dealers are all harmless. NONE of them carry firearms or are affiliated with Gangs that murder people. |
Aside from what Fox responded with, way to imply that carrying firearms is somehow a criminal behavior in itself. Apparently, that would make you the Democrat. |
That's actually pretty funny, yes. I suggest a reform that would reduce government spending, and pkang replies by insisting government spending is necessary and seemingly demonizing people who exercise the right to bear arms.
Seems you've taken a plunge into the extreme left pkang. |
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conrad2
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Whats to stop a white collar criminal if he knows beforehand that worse case scenario he just has to give the money back? Prison is a powerful deterrent. |
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pkang0202

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Street Magic wrote: |
pkang0202 wrote: |
Wow, this really takes the cake. So, lets NOT send crack dealers in Compton to prison. Because Crack dealers are all harmless. NONE of them carry firearms or are affiliated with Gangs that murder people. |
Aside from what Fox responded with, way to imply that carrying firearms is somehow a criminal behavior in itself. Apparently, that would make you the Democrat. |
Oh my bad. I just assumed drug dealers in Compton carried guns. Maybe they all stand on the street with Katana swords and ninja stars.
*EDIT: I forgot they may also have nunchucks and bowstaffs too. How awful of me to just jumped to the conclusion that they carried guns. |
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