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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
1- Of course the number of crimes commited by the foreign community is smaller than the number committed by locals...20 0000 vs 50 million....kinda basic common sense no?
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It's not a matter of sheer numbers. It's a matter of there being a smaller percentage of crimes committed by E2 visa holders than the percentage of Koreans that are committing crimes.
If you follow those links at the beginning of this thread you will find a human rights commission report that discusses this. I think that the author showed that based on police records in 2008, about 25 E2 foreigners out of 100,000 E2 foreigners had been charged with a sex offence crime. But the ratio for Korean citizens is over 100 out of 100,000. It's about 4 times as many. Per capita, E2 visa holders were more law abiding.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
AES is not imposing anything on Foreign Teachers...they are a fringe hate group of 17 000 members, a high number of which are not even active members. But this fallacy that AES is a national level force keeps being pushed forth... |
The number of foreign English teachers in Korea is also small, spread out and not organised on a national level (or any level for that matter). You only need a few people to instigate problems, to spread false propaganda, to stir up hatred. 17,000 members is plenty enough to cause some damage if they got themselves organised. They just need to be dedicated to their cause, have some free time on their hands, and be persistent. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| based on police records in 2008, about 25 E2 foreigners out of 100,000 E2 foreigners had been charged with a sex offence crime. But the ratio for Korean citizens is over 100 out of 100,000. It's about 4 times as many. Per capita, E2 visa holders were more law abiding.. |
I don't think there's every been 100,000 E2s in one year. |
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FistFace
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Location: Peekaboo! I can see you! And I know what you do!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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They made it a point to say that he has no wife or kids.
I wonder if it's a lie, and he's just trying to protect them? |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| based on police records in 2008, about 25 E2 foreigners out of 100,000 E2 foreigners had been charged with a sex offence crime. But the ratio for Korean citizens is over 100 out of 100,000. It's about 4 times as many. Per capita, E2 visa holders were more law abiding.. |
I don't think there's every been 100,000 E2s in one year. |
Well, for example, if you count people who finish their contract early in the year and then count their replacements, it could be possible. |
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FistFace
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Location: Peekaboo! I can see you! And I know what you do!
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Of course the number of crimes commited by the foreign community is smaller than the number committed by locals...20 0000 vs 50 million....kinda basic common sense no?
AES is not imposing anything on Foreign Teachers...they are a fringe hate group of 17 000 members, a high number of which are not even active members. But this fallacy that AES is a national level force keeps being pushed forth... |
Compare those 17,000 to the 21-25,000 or so E2 visa holders- the numbers are almost equal. And as one of the posters said; if you organize these individuals and give them a medium to spout their hatred, they could do some damage.
If this group was a "fringe" group, why are they influencing policies toward foreigners and public sentiment through the media?
It might've been a joke, but one that many Koreans seriously believe. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
| Quote: |
Of course the number of crimes commited by the foreign community is smaller than the number committed by locals...20 0000 vs 50 million....kinda basic common sense no?
AES is not imposing anything on Foreign Teachers...they are a fringe hate group of 17 000 members, a high number of which are not even active members. But this fallacy that AES is a national level force keeps being pushed forth... |
Compare those 17,000 to the 21-25,000 or so E2 visa holders- the numbers are almost equal. And as one of the posters said; if you organize these individuals and give them a medium to spout their hatred, they could do some damage.
If this group was a "fringe" group, why are they influencing policies toward foreigners and public sentiment through the media?
It might've been a joke, but one that many Koreans seriously believe. |
According to the article the guy said they had a membership of 300. It's the website that has 17,000 people who registered.
Being able to exert minor influence on a fringe issue is not indicative of having widespread influence.
Yes they influence people through the media, but so does Hollywood, The Christian station, Arirang, ESPN, and daily human interaction.
We stereotype the Ks as borg-minded, LV chasing, soup-slurping, wife-beaters. But if they go and stereotype us as skirt-chasing, fight-starting, boozehounds, its not okay? Personally I think both stereotypes are stupid, but turnabout is fair play.
Regardless, are we really that afraid of that 40 year old virgin? I mean come one, You don't need a LAW to swat a gnat. Let this group implode on itself. |
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mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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To play devil's advocate.
The stereotype pushed by AES results in having a seat in policy meetings. the stereotype pushed by esl teachers results in nothing |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| based on police records in 2008, about 25 E2 foreigners out of 100,000 E2 foreigners had been charged with a sex offence crime. But the ratio for Korean citizens is over 100 out of 100,000. It's about 4 times as many. Per capita, E2 visa holders were more law abiding.. |
I don't think there's every been 100,000 E2s in one year. |
Well, for example, if you count people who finish their contract early in the year and then count their replacements, it could be possible. |
No it couldn't. I think the highest I've seen any quote in one year was around 28000. Even if every single teacher was replaced and they were all in the country on the same day you're looking at 56,000.
It is probably just adjusted for comparison. 25/100000, is about 5/20000 (which is about the current number I think) |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| based on police records in 2008, about 25 E2 foreigners out of 100,000 E2 foreigners had been charged with a sex offence crime. But the ratio for Korean citizens is over 100 out of 100,000. It's about 4 times as many. Per capita, E2 visa holders were more law abiding.. |
I don't think there's every been 100,000 E2s in one year. |
Well, for example, if you count people who finish their contract early in the year and then count their replacements, it could be possible. |
No it couldn't. I think the highest I've seen any quote in one year was around 28000. Even if every single teacher was replaced and they were all in the country on the same day you're looking at 56,000.
It is probably just adjusted for comparison. 25/100000, is about 5/20000 (which is about the current number I think) |
I suppose that you are right. Nonetheless, I thought that I would point out that we are not taking into account for example, bad hagwons where multiple runners regularly occur. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| FistFace wrote: |
They made it a point to say that he has no wife or kids.
I wonder if it's a lie, and he's just trying to protect them? |
It's an odd point for an American reporter/editor to include in the article. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| based on police records in 2008, about 25 E2 foreigners out of 100,000 E2 foreigners had been charged with a sex offence crime. But the ratio for Korean citizens is over 100 out of 100,000. It's about 4 times as many. Per capita, E2 visa holders were more law abiding.. |
I don't think there's every been 100,000 E2s in one year. |
Well, for example, if you count people who finish their contract early in the year and then count their replacements, it could be possible. |
No it couldn't. I think the highest I've seen any quote in one year was around 28000. Even if every single teacher was replaced and they were all in the country on the same day you're looking at 56,000.
It is probably just adjusted for comparison. 25/100000, is about 5/20000 (which is about the current number I think) |
I suppose that you are right. Nonetheless, I thought that I would point out that we are not taking into account for example, bad hagwons where multiple runners regularly occur. |
It still wouldn't be possible to have 100,000 E2s in the country at the same time, not to mention if someone did a runner the hagwon wouldn't be anticipating that and their replacement wouldn't be in the country at the same time. I don't know how many people actually extend past contract who are being replaced, but I we know there is only 50% turnover so even if everyone who left extended past contract and their replacement showed up before they left at the very most you'd have 30,000 E2s in the country at once. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Yes they influence people through the media, but so does Hollywood, The Christian station, Arirang, ESPN, and daily human interaction. |
The point is those groups don't espouse as much hatred against foreigners as AES and lawmakers are basing their policy decisions on what is being said in the media based on what this group is espousing.
| Quote: |
We stereotype the Ks as borg-minded, LV chasing, soup-slurping, wife-beaters. But if they go and stereotype us as skirt-chasing, fight-starting, boozehounds, its not okay? Personally I think both stereotypes are stupid, but turnabout is fair play.
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People stereotype everyone- but we don't espouse such rhetoric in our classrooms, on TV, on the radio, in movies or in governmental policy. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes they influence people through the media, but so does Hollywood, The Christian station, Arirang, ESPN, and daily human interaction. |
The point is those groups don't espouse as much hatred against foreigners as AES and lawmakers are basing their policy decisions on what is being said in the media based on what this group is espousing.
| Quote: |
We stereotype the Ks as borg-minded, LV chasing, soup-slurping, wife-beaters. But if they go and stereotype us as skirt-chasing, fight-starting, boozehounds, its not okay? Personally I think both stereotypes are stupid, but turnabout is fair play.
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People stereotype everyone- but we don't espouse such rhetoric in our classrooms, on TV, on the radio, in movies or in governmental policy. |
I think a fair number of Conservative Christian lawmakers here in Korea have been influenced by non-Korean Christians and their music and messages.
I think Hollywood and ESPN have had wayyy more of an influence on perceptions of foreigners than the AES.
Most Koreans haven't even heard of AES and a good many of them don't think we're diseased drug-addicts. But Hollywood and sports is everywhere. The sports industry and the entertainment industry influence policy.
Coco Chanel has had more influence than the AES. I think Fashion and luxury goods drive Korean policy more than the AES.
As for the rhetoric we espouse, I don't agree with "If its on the internet its not as bad as in the print media" If anything its more honest because it isnt filtered by editors. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I think a fair number of Conservative Christian lawmakers here in Korea have been influenced by non-Korean Christians and their music and messages.
I think Hollywood and ESPN have had wayyy more of an influence on perceptions of foreigners than the AES.
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But these groups don't have people like Yie going around stalking foreigners.
For one thing it is VERY dangerous- there was an instance a few nights ago in Haebangchon where one of those freaks from AES was stalking a US Army sergeant. The soldier, diagnosed with PTSD, had the suspicions that someone was following him and when he found out his instincts were correct, he beat the guy to a pulp before calling the MPs. The MPs called the KNPs when they found out he was a Korean national. Asked what he was doing, the man thought the soldier was an English teacher and identified himself as a member of AES. Fortunately, the Korean guy was arrested- FOR STALKING by the the KNP.
Trying to equate a hate group that espouses throwing all English teachers out of Korea to such things as sports and religion doesn't really make sense.
But it will get the eyes of the MODs who try to keep the posts away from the subject of religion.
On a side note- I do agree that LaToya is one of the lesser talented Jacksons- that we do find consensus on  |
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