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Incest: Freud was wrong
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:20 am    Post subject: Incest: Freud was wrong Reply with quote
At a talk given yesterday at the University of Copenhagen, Researcher Paul John Frandsen expounded upon his research showing that the incest taboo is not universal.

The entire presentation is on YouTube, but unfortunately only the introduction (about 4 minutes) is in English.

Frandsen, Paul John:
Incestuous and Close-Kin Marriage in Ancient Egypt and Persia.
An Examination of the Evidence

Quote:
This book restricts its examination to the sources for incestuous relationships between members of non-royal nuclear families and puts forth arguments against the generally held axiom that the prohibition of incest is a universal phenomenon.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Incest also really isn't that big of a deal when practiced sparringly. It would take generations of incest to start having serious, reliable defects start popping up.
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RufusW



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doesn't a kid from an incestuous relationship have quite a high probability of defects though?
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kabrams



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
WTF I wish I could read the thing...
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
RufusW wrote:
Doesn't a kid from an incestuous relationship have quite a high probability of defects though?


I read somewhere that the rate isn't particularly high in the first generation (for some reason the number 10% comes to mind) but gets higher with each successive generation.
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Sergio Stefanuto



Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
bacasper wrote:
the incest taboo is not universal


It's not taboo with me. What others do in the privacy of their homes is none of my concern.
That we, Westerners, are even having this discussion speaks volumes. Incest and what ever its effects to offspring or generations of offspring is taboo in our societies due to the proliferation of overgrown governments (and Judeo-Christian morality) concerned with every phase of our private lives.

I'm sure that there are increased risks, but:

* if two sibblings are in love and are convinced that a sexual relationship would enhance their lives, the opinions of third parties are of no importance at all

* sibbling-lovers are just as capable of using contraception as the rest of us

* criminalizing sexual intercourse is an empirically unsound and disproportionate response to increased risk

* increased risk to offspring sets an uncomfortable precedent, for there are many circumstances besides incest where genetic disorders will be passed on (if we looked closely enough at individuals' backgrounds, very few people would be permitted to have sex)

* Forced marriages to close relatives, however, are obviously very different
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kabrams wrote:
WTF I wish I could read the thing...

The book is in English and available on Amazon.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Incest and what ever its effects to offspring or generations of offspring is taboo in our societies due to the proliferation of overgrown governments (and Judeo-Christian morality) concerned with every phase of our private lives.



Over-reaction to everything is not necessary.

Quote:
* sibbling-lovers are just as capable of using contraception as the rest of us


Why is incest identified as siblings? It can be parent/child or can even be relations between cousins, second cousins, third cousins...it depends on how the society defines incest.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kabrams wrote:
WTF I wish I could read the thing...

Read the first 24 pages at http://www.mtp.hum.ku.dk/rwfolder/elnppage/201060.pdf.

Quote:
Why is incest identified as siblings? It can be parent/child or can even be relations between cousins, second cousins, third cousins...it depends on how the society defines incest.

The presentation and book deal with nuclear family incest among non-royalty only.
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Sergio Stefanuto



Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
A Michigan mom who pleaded guilty to having sex with her 14-year-old biological son she gave up for adoption and later found on the Internet, will face at least nine years behind bars. Sword tracked her teenage son, who is now 16, on Facebook in 2008.