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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Peaches don't hold their value long, but they sure are good, and a good worth my money.
So gold is good money because it holds it's value -- if you don't spend it. I guess from a hoarder's perspective that makes sense. However, in economics they teach that currency simply lubricates the wheels of exchange. If you aren't exchanging goods and services then your currency (whatever it may be) is simply useless.
A gold standard seems totally arbitary and favors only those with gold as opposed to the myriad of other resources (including human resources.) Fiat currency seems to make more sense when we consider how complex economies are today. They lose value, but as long as you are partaking in the economy you are benefiting.
So far, it's not surprising that the chief supporters of gold seem to be Idaho militia types who think the economy is about to go the way of the dodo. Guns and ammo would seem to be a similar store of value. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| I don't get what is so bad about the federal Reserve. What currency is more stable than the U.S. dollar? |
The dollar has lost 98% of its value since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. You call that stable? |
So people don't work for a dollar a day anymore. What has that got to do with prosperity. I've got an open miond, but I won't take anything resembling, "because it's evil" as an argument. Looking pre and post 1913, i'd say material gains see-sawed before and have increased much more than linerally after. What's so great about gold? It has value, sure, so do other things. Why not have a saffron standard? |
One of the important attributes a good has to have to have to be considered money is a "store of value." This means it will be worth the same tomorrow or next year or in 20 years, as it is now. Unbacked dollars aren't a very good medium of exchange because they don't hold their value over time. Because the govt can print more money its value is eroded and causes the holder of the dollar to become poorer.
Gold is an excellent form of currency because it satisfies all the criteria of a stable medium of exchange. It holds its value over time. It is easy to transport. People will accept it as payment (if they are allowed to). And it can be used as a unit of exchange, ie it is measurable. |
Money has to be:
1) easily divisible
2) a store of value
3) a means of exchange.
Gold is a store of value but not easily divisible or a means of exchange. The USD (or CAD) is a means of exchange and easily divisible but not a store of value.
The USD is down 11% since March 5th. It will rally now that the EU and Japan are seen to be in more trouble than the US. Then it will continue down.
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX
Every person needs to have savings (at least 12 months of living expenses) that is not invested at risk. Gold (or silver, which I prefer) is more useful than the USD or even T-bills for this.
About the Fed. It is secretive, private cartel that represents the interests of big banks. Full stop, final answer. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: |
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So we're back to the Fed is evil because it's evil argument? I suppose gold is a good bet if you're unable to earn more money and you're suspicious of investing in some kind of enterprise.
My vote for worst president is either Harding or Grant, maybe the first Johnson. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
So far, it's not surprising that the chief supporters of gold seem to be Idaho militia types who think the economy is about to go the way of the dodo. Guns and ammo would seem to be a similar store of value. |
Completely false. High net worth individuals are advised to have around 10% of their portfolio in precious metals as an inflation and Apocalypse threat.
The largest hoarder of gold on earth is the United States government. What do they know that you don't. You need to ponder how sensitive you are to government propaganda, given that you just wrote the above. Central banks hate gold. Gold is their nemesis. They can't devalue (steal wealth) from the people if the people don't play ball. That you have so easily fallen prey to propaganda by pejorative doesn't say much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-ZZFmKFk1s
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Jim Rickards, director of market intelligence for scientific consulting firm Omnis, shares his outlook for the dollar.
Jim cracks the code of "Fed Speak" to tell us what is really going on with the Global Banking Elite and their plans for the future. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Unable to be convincing, we slip into ad hominim attacks... |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| Unable to be convincing, we slip into ad hominim attacks... |
| Quote: |
| I suppose gold is a good bet if you're unable to earn more money.. |
| Quote: |
| So far, it's not surprising that the chief supporters of gold seem to be Idaho militia types... |
http://theinsanityreport.com/images/pot_kettle.jpg
Now. Gold was the best performing asset of the past decade. Ask yourself, why do you not know that? Why do you think the best performing asset of the past decade is for Idaho militia types? Who do you think holds this metal?
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/gold-outshines-all-other-assets-for-past-decade-3388.html
You can buy jr/sr mining stocks, paper gold, physical gold, etf's and others.
I find it interesting that individuals who are clearly not part of the establishment will parrot the propaganda of the establishment. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Gold (or silver, which I prefer) is more useful than the USD or even T-bills for this. |
Sorry for the slight tangent, but why do you prefer silver? I was thinking about this issue, and I'd appreciate your insight. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Gold (or silver, which I prefer) is more useful than the USD or even T-bills for this. |
Sorry for the slight tangent, but why do you prefer silver? I was thinking about this issue, and I'd appreciate your insight. |
I prefer it because it is cheaper. The gold/silver price relationship is favorable to silver presently as well.
Though I'd hold off for a bit. The dollar will rally in the short run. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| Unable to be convincing, we slip into ad hominim attacks... |
umm its obvious you don't want to be convinced. It wasn't like he just insulted you. He had other things to say too. Apparently you have selecting reading skills.
And yes, my posting is an ad hominem attack, so no need to point it out. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mises, gold is easily divisible. You simply have a currency that is redeemable for gold. Which has been the case for much of history. That is how paper money got started after all.
If I were a bank, I would release a bank card that is denominated in gold. You use it just like a checking card except you pay in gold instead of dollars. The bank can then exchange it for dollars if the payee desires or they can debit it to their own gold account.
Unfortunately peaches wouldn't work that well as a medium of exchange as it would favor peach farmers. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Mises, gold is easily divisible. |
It is divisible.
When I go to the market and buy a product for 1$ and pay with a 20note the clerk is able to quickly break the 20 and give me appropriate change. That is easily divisible.
Here's a good article (written by James Grant, of Grant's Interest Rate Observer) on the gold standard. I don't know what my opinion is on the GS being appropriate or not for our monetary system.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704342404574575761660481996.html |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I'll gladly sell food for gold! I would prefer silver or palladium, but gold is fine! I'll even take platinum, tin, rhodium, indium, or copper. If someone has tellurium, I would definitely like some because I don't have any of it and I want some.  |
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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's funny, but as I read up on things, I see history repeating itself over and over. Grover Cleveland was a democrat, but some of the famous quotes make him seem like a modern day republican or libertarian...but I digress, history has been meanest to the presidents to my home state, Ohio. All of them pretty much sucked and came into office due to Ohio's huge number of votes in the electorial college and the power therein.
The worst one was Warren G. Harding. He never even pretended to be qualified for the presidency and was nominated as "the best of the second-raters" when no one could agree on who to nominate. He then chose a cabinet of crooked cronies from what was known as "The Ohio Gang" and had a presidency riddled with corruption and scandal. The best known scandal was called "The Teapot Dome" scandal. It involved bribery, single-bid contracts, and kickbacks regarding the use of oil rich land that had been set aside in reserve for the needs of the U.S. Navy, thus jeopardizing national security. |
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soakitincider
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Woodrow Wilson  |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| Unable to be convincing, we slip into ad hominim attacks... |
umm its obvious you don't want to be convinced. It wasn't like he just insulted you. He had other things to say too. Apparently you have selecting reading skills.
And yes, my posting is an ad hominem attack, so no need to point it out. |
There are plenty of odd things people believe that i don't want to be convinced of, sure. The lack of a good argument doesn't mean something isn't true, but it doesn't hurt the other side either. |
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