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Russia will not passively watch Patriot missiles deployed
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mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:11 am Post subject:

Quote:

The "current problem" is debt. In specific, since August 18, 1971 the United States has used inflation to finance the warfare/welfare state. Now, there is little left to inflate, little future consumption to bring forward and a hollowed out economy. All that remains is the Bretton Woods 2 system, which will die immediately following a short period of global macro stability. At that point, the empire dies.

So this becomes your rant about how the US is bankrupting itself by overstretching itself as an imperialist power- very cliche.

Despite the problems the US is facing, the economic is still in shape enough to take care of its people and to fight for its own security.
The deficit spending you are talking about was taken care of by the time the "conflict" ended.

You need to understand that if the US fails in any kind of mission, the rest of the world would feel it. What people fail to realize is that if it were not for the US taking the fight to those insurgents, they would be committing more attacks in the US and in Europe.
Look at whats happening in other parts of the world where insurgents are going home, they are taking their training and using it to fuel insurgencies in their own homelands.

Quote:

Whatever "strategy" publications you're reading are misleading you. The big picture isn't "two war doctrine". The big picture is bankruptcy.

We are bankrupt? When did this happen?
If the government was indeed bankrupt, I'd be out of a job since I work for USFK. So since I'm still in my office working, the US is far from being bankrupt. The reports I am mentioning are the ones I have access to due to my paygrade- so I have pretty accurate information about what is going on.

Quote:

When the history of the fiat era is written, the Vietnam war will be understood as the beginning of the decline. Since the Vietnam war inequality has increased.

Inequality against whom?
The US is not on a decline, we are not becoming a failed state like the Soviet Union became or what North Korea will become.

Pluto

Joined: 19 Dec 2006

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:25 am Post subject:

bucheon bum wrote:

mc_jc wrote:

We are still very much capable to sustaining military operations as long as the threat is still there.

The threat isn't still there! That's the point some of us are trying to make.

No Bucheon Bum, beware the hobgoblins!

Taken from one of my favorite authors of the New Deal era:

H. L. Mencken wrote:

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

Okay, now, moving on.

mc_jc wrote:

You need to understand that if the US fails in any kind of mission, the rest of the world would feel it. What people fail to realize is that if it were not for the US taking the fight to those insurgents, they would be committing more attacks in the US and in Europe.

A claim that can not be proven nor disproven, so your assertion is meaningless. In fact, if were are going to enter the world of counter-factuals, one could just as easily assert that the insurgent "threat" would be negligible had the US never invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq.

Last edited by Pluto on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total

mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:29 am Post subject:

So 9/11 never happened? So the bombings in Madrid and London are completely imaginary? The attempted bombing on Christmas day is a hoax? Even your savior Russia would find that hard to swallow.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:29 am Post subject:

mc_jc wrote:

Quote:

Whatever "strategy" publications you're reading are misleading you. The big picture isn't "two war doctrine". The big picture is bankruptcy.

We are bankrupt? When did this happen?

Having more debt than can EVER possibly be paid back is a pretty good definition of bankruptcy. It is literally impossible for the US debt to ever be paid back. The only reason our government gets away with it is because we've hooked the world on our ponzi scheme (countries like China can't dump their dollar reserves without devaluing the dollar) and partly because our guns are bigger than anyone elses (kind of like trying to collect debts from the mafia, not many people are willing to try and force the issue).

But the economy is continually getting worse, and the globalist powers that be are already talking about replacing the dollar as the world reserve currency. At the current rate, our country's only export will soon be guns...

Quote:

If the government was indeed bankrupt, I'd be out of a job since I work for USFK. So since I'm still in my office working, the US is far from being bankrupt. The reports I am mentioning are the ones I have access to due to my paygrade- so I have pretty accurate information about what is going on.

You're just getting paid borrowed money and inflation means your purchasing power goes down. The government has more debt than it will ever be able to pay off (same goes for the the general public as well). In fact, the national debt has never gone down, it only goes up. This is because the Fed (privately owned central bank) issues all our currency as debt.

Quote:

When the history of the fiat era is written, the Vietnam war will be understood as the beginning of the decline. Since the Vietnam war inequality has increased.

Inequality against whom?
The US is not on a decline, we are not becoming a failed state like the Soviet Union became or what North Korea will become.

Wishful thinking. Sorry to break it to you, but although you may be patriotic (a good thing), America has been hijacked by globalists who have no allegiance to their country. All the major banks and corporations are multinational and actually want to bring down the US (just as we brought down the Soviet Union) and bankrupt us so that they bring in their new globalist institutions that they control and consolidate power into their own hands.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:31 am Post subject:

mc_jc wrote:

So 9/11 never happened?
So the bombings in Madrid and London are completely imaginary?
The attempted bombing on Christmas day is a hoax?

Even your savior Russia would find that hard to swallow.

9/11 was CLEARLY an inside job. If you don't know that (the evidence is overwhelming) then you've never watched anything except mainstream media in your life.

The US government plans and/or initiates false-flag events against the US regularly - this is quite well documented (Operation Northwoods, and the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, for example).

mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:44 am Post subject:

Quote:

If that was indeed a true definition of debt, then every nation on earth is indebted to another nation or organizations.
England and Europe are indebted to the US for helping them recover from WWII- which means, by extension, that Canada is also since the US bought alot of products from them at the end of the war because there were no markets left intact.
China is buying tons of our debt in the hopes of controlling our policies toward them. But one thing China is sensitive to is Chinese public discontent and there is tons of it to go around there. I really can't say that the Chinese economy is a bubble, but if something were to happen, it would be felt more than anything felt by the financial shake up in the US.

If we were truly in bankrupcy status, banks would shut down to stop people from taking money out- something that has not happened since the Depression. Also, all public works would cease- including hospitals and law enforcement. But those things are still up and running.

A true indicator that inflation is hitting the US hard is gas prices. The US and the rest of the world did experience exorbitantly high gas prices a year or so again. But since then, gas prices have stablized in most places in the US.

Quote:

Sorry to break it to you, but although you may be patriotic (a good thing), America has been hijacked by globalists who have no allegiance to their country. All the major banks and corporations are multinational and actually want to bring down the US (just as we brought down the Soviet Union) and bankrupt us so that they bring in their new globalist institutions that they control and consolidate power into their own hands.

If this were true, I would see corporate sponsorship on most government projects- which are still up and running with federal funding.

Quote:

This thread was intended for me to rant about a psychotic War Party that knows no limit.

So this is not a healthy discussion about military issues at all, but a rant about how powerful some people think the US has become?
Rolling Eyes

Pluto

Joined: 19 Dec 2006

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:47 am Post subject:

mc_jc wrote:

So 9/11 never happened?
So the bombings in Madrid and London are completely imaginary?
The attempted bombing on Christmas day is a hoax?

Even your savior Russia would find that hard to swallow.

Russia is not my savior, I could really care less about Russia. Yes, the risk posed by terrorism is not justified by the current costs. I cannot think of a single actuary on Earth who would price the risk posed by terrorism at $1 trillion per annum. Unless the government or any its agents would like to share some of that information with people in risk management, there is no reason to take said information at face value.

Voters - that is Americans- are not as stupid as you might think. Voters also deserve to be fully informed, especially since they pay taxes. So, please, stop with condescending talk about privalaged information and pay grades.

Seriously, those of us who deal with statistics and risk management could tell you, you have got a better chance of getting struck by lightening than terrorism. Honestly, the chance of having your life disrupted by a terrorist is, for all intents and purposes, negligible.

Thank you, John Stossel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TpCYfYH8UE

Last edited by Pluto on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

mc_jc

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:49 am Post subject:

Quote:

9/11 was CLEARLY an inside job. If you don't know that (the evidence is overwhelming) then you've never watched anything except mainstream media in your life.

So 3000 ordinary, innocent people fell victim to a government conspiracy?
I strongly believe you have been watching Al-Jeezera too much. Or you believe everything that is broadcasted on Korean TV- which has lesser credibility.

Quote:

Russia is not my savior, I could really care less about Russia.

But that is what this discussion is about? Russia

We could start another thread where we could discuss this in more details if you want to talk about the US and its financial problems.

But I do have a paygrade that allows me to have access to some things that are not broadcasted in the media.

There are several sides to every issue.

Last edited by mc_jc on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:55 am Post subject:

mc_jc wrote:

So 9/11 never happened?

Ok, I'll clarify: there is no nation-state that is a significant security threat. Perhaps China, but that is more a cyber security issue. And in regards to both China and Islamic terrorists, tanks, guns, etc. are not the primary solution. Better intelligence and beefed up domestic security resources are.

Quote:

So the bombings in Madrid and London are completely imaginary?

Besides the fact they did not happen the United States, they also were also home grown in Spain and the UK. Sending forces overseas would not have prevented this from happening.

Quote:

The attempted bombing on Christmas day is a hoax?

And funny how your average joe put a stop to it. Not the military, CIA, or any other national security agency. Wow, what a threat! I'm shaking in my boots!

Also notice how he's been treated like a criminal? Because that's what it is: a criminal act. Just like Tim McVeigh.

Quote:

Even your savior Russia would find that hard to swallow.

WTF are you talking about dude?

My point is this: the US has created threats of its own. Prime example is Iraq. North Korea is a threat, but only because it might sell nuclear technology and/or weapons to a terrorist organization. We don't need troops in South Korea to fight that threat.

And Afghanistan? Are you going to tell me that's winnable?? We're supporting a corrupt gov't with little legitimacy. And the taliban is a threat? To Afghanis perhaps. And Pakistanis. But to the US? Eh not so much.

If we want to effectively fight the "war on terror", we should copy Israel. Not the way acts in the occupied territories but how it protects its aiports, El Al, etc.

And mc_jc, honestly, you are ignoring the entitlements the US gov't will be owing down the road. If our gov't doesn't fix our finances, soon, we are in BIG trouble.

You might think that mises and company are being melodramatic and doomsday types but guess what: mainstream news commentators are starting to sound like them (and no, I am not referring to nutballs like Rush and Glenn Beck). Why? Because its becoming more and more obvoius that this country will need HUGE changes in order to turn things around.

Pluto

Joined: 19 Dec 2006

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject:

mc_jc wrote:

Russia is not a threat. The Russians can be annoying, but they are not a threat.

As far as the information is concerned, I will maintain that taxpayers have a perfect right to it since we are the ones bankrolling your operations.

However, if the governments answer is, "that's none of your business," then I think a fairly legitimate reply would be to say there is really nothing that you say, or what any other government bureaucrat says for that matter, should be taken seriously. Moreover, I will continue to remind people that the threat posed by terrorism is statistically negligible.

Last edited by Pluto on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject:

mc_jc wrote:

Quote:

If that was indeed a true definition of debt, then every nation on earth is indebted to another nation or organizations.

Actually, (nearly) every nation on earth is indebted to central banks. In the West, these central banks are the fronts for private banking cartels, which issue the fiat currency as debt, using the fractional reserve banking method. In the US, our central bank is the privately owned Federal Reserve. Our government is massively indebted to it.

In other words, the banks run the show.

Quote:

England and Europe are indebted to the US for helping them recover from WWII- which means, by extension, that Canada is also since the US bought alot of products from them at the end of the war because there were no markets left intact.

Um, Europe is not indebted to the US. Europe has combined its central banks into a European central bank, and all the countries are indebted to it.

Quote:

China is buying tons of our debt in the hopes of controlling our policies toward them. But one thing China is sensitive to is Chinese public discontent and there is tons of it to go around there. I really can't say that the Chinese economy is a bubble, but if something were to happen, it would be felt more than anything felt by the financial shake up in the US.

The Chinese economic system is similar to ours - it is a bubble. Fractional reserve central banking, throwing around cheap credit, leads to bubbles. At the present time, however, China's currency is undervalued and they have a massive trade surplus with the US. If China were to dump their dollar reserves all at once, they'd lose their leverage, but then we really would be bankrupt (the dollar would likely hyperinflate).

Quote:

If we were truly in bankrupcy status, banks would shut down to stop people from taking money out- something that has not happened since the Depression. Also, all public works would cease- including hospitals and law enforcement. But those things are still up and running.

Um, not so. The banks don't care about us paying them back - they just want us to be in debt to them forever. They care far more about power, and being able to charge perpetual interest on states and the rest of us private borrowers. The banks create the money they lend out of nothing (literally, just out of thin air) using the fractional reserve method, and lend it out at interest. It's a complete scam (literally fraud).

Just look at how the IMF goes into third world countries and utterly enthralls them with debt. The same goes for the first world - you just haven't been told about it. We've been controlled by the banks in the US since at least 1913 (when the private Fed was signed into existence).

Quote:

A true indicator that inflation is hitting the US hard is gas prices. The US and the rest of the world did experience exorbitantly high gas prices a year or so again. But since then, gas prices have stablized in most places in the US.

While inflation has definitely gone up, gas prices are manipulated, and are not actually a very accurate indicator of it... There's actually more gas and oil than we know what to do with, but artificial scarcity keeps the prices up. The Iraq war was good for the oil business.

Quote:

If this were true, I would see corporate sponsorship on most government projects- which are still up and running with federal funding.

Huh? I'm talking about global banks. US sovereignty is not in their best interests. Most people in government are members of globalist think tanks like the Council on Foreign Relations, which are funded by big banks. They are not loyal to the US. Bush, Clinton, Obama - they are all globalists, working for the globalist agenda, which cannot succeed as long as the US is the sole superpower. The goal is for globalist institutions to take over.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:29 pm Post subject:

mc_jc wrote:

9/11 was CLEARLY an inside job. If you don't know that (the evidence is overwhelming) then you've never watched anything except mainstream media in your life.

Quote:

I never watch Al-Jazeera, or Korean TV for that matter.

Go on youtube and watch "Loose Change" for a good overview. There's plenty of other sources as well. The evidence is overwhelming.

Do you actually think the government gives a rat's ass about you or the average joe? Of course they'd murder 3000 ordinary US citizens without even batting an eye. These are the same type of ruthless people who go around the world murdering millions with our army in unconstitutional wars. They care about money, power, and control. They care nothing whatsoever for the common public, except when it comes to lying and brainwashing.

wannago

Joined: 16 Apr 2004

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:25 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

The evidence is overwhelming.

You said that just a few posts ago...and it's still a lie.

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject:

mc_jc wrote:

Frankly speaking, I don't think this is true. In fact, I think the exact opposite is true: the combination of military and economic warfare the West has engaged in against certain countries (and yes, sanctions are essentially economic warfare) makes terrorist attacks more likely, not less likely. More importantly, though, even if they did commit more attacks in the US and Europe, they would have to be wildly and atypically successful and numerous attacks to even break even in terms of the number of lives lost in these pointless wars, and it would be outright impossible for said attacks to cause the same level of economic damage as these wars have.

In short, even if you're hypothetically right, we're still hurting ourselves worse than the terrorists could ever hope to hurt us by pursuing our current course of action.

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:20 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

mc_jc wrote:

yes. 3,000 dead. While tragic, how many troops have we lost in our adventures overseas? How many have been wounded??

And of course there is the financial side of it all too....

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