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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Platinumrose
Joined: 08 Jan 2009
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 Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| Where does this idea come from? How do you know what NE asians are thinking? |
Don't know about the rest of NE Asia but Koreans , as opposed to a lot of other countries, specifically target people in their adverts who have just left college and have no qualifications or teaching experience. That would suggest they think teaching doesn't require much skill. They then go even further and advertise for American or Canadian women which makes it even clearer that they don't see the majority of jobs they are offering as being worthy of anyone who is serious about teaching as a career. I agree with Davochest, don't shoot the messenger, it's there in black and white in most of the job adverts. We know what Koreans are thinking about the quality of teachers they are trying to attract for public schools and hagwans by what they put in the adverts |
It`s the same in China. Most Chinese would prefer male foreign ESLer`s would just go home. ESL is not seen as a proper profession here or in Korea. I know many Chinese women who ask me to introduce them to a Western man, but "not if he`s just an English teacher". You can`t really blame them for that. |
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Platinumrose
Joined: 08 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| Platinumrose wrote: |
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Hey don`t shoot the messenger. It just is the way it is. NE Asians have little(if any) respect for male ESLer`s. If you can live with that reality than keep doing what you are doing. |
All 1.5 billion of them huh? What are you doing on Daves when you should making a killing reading NE Asian minds for the CIA? |
OG, you don`t need to be mind reader to know that Chinese/Koreans have little use for Western men who teach English. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| davochest wrote: |
| The crimainal record check was a direct response to a teacher said to have abused his students. i cant give a case file number and i dont know if it happened or not but it was in the korean news for ages.[/list] |
That's convenient that you can't cite anything.
It was pressure from the public as a result of the Canadian toucher having taught in Korea well before he had done anything wrong, on a different visa, and still completely within the regulations currently in place. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| CPJ wrote: |
| Public schools don't really have a preference for a male or female teacher. |
Bull. Shit.
I was flatly told not to apply for a job because "they wanted a female teacher this year" at a school in a community near Bucheon, and all the candidates for the job I lost, after indicating I wanted it for another year, were female. I learned this because I was asked to vet my replacement, without input from my co-teachers, after I was not renewed, against my wishes.
My girlfriend's school directly told her she got the job because they had to choose between having someone start a month into the school year and having a black male teach their kids. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Platinumrose wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Platinumrose wrote: |
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Hey don`t shoot the messenger. It just is the way it is. NE Asians have little(if any) respect for male ESLer`s. If you can live with that reality than keep doing what you are doing. |
All 1.5 billion of them huh? What are you doing on Daves when you should making a killing reading NE Asian minds for the CIA? |
OG, you don`t need to be mind reader to know that Chinese/Koreans have little use for Western men who teach English. |
So basically, "it's true because I said so". |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Sincinnatislink wrote: |
| CPJ wrote: |
| Public schools don't really have a preference for a male or female teacher. |
Bull. Shit.
I was flatly told not to apply for a job because "they wanted a female teacher this year" at a school in a community near Bucheon, and all the candidates for the job I lost, after indicating I wanted it for another year, were female. I learned this because I was asked to vet my replacement, without input from my co-teachers, after I was not renewed, against my wishes.
My girlfriend's school directly told her she got the job because they had to choose between having someone start a month into the school year and having a black male teach their kids. |
My story is basically similar. The public school principals are salivating at the prospect of female teachers to stroke their egos every lunchtime and the recruiters are calling them and offering lists of available youthful blondes.
The whole myth put about here for years was that "rogue foreign teachers aren't qualified" yet the reality is that they are passing up qualified teachers all the time and replacing them with a beauty pageant of females based solely on their appearance. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: Wow thanks |
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| Thank goodness the principals at my school are mainly female. However I guess it doesn't make me wholly immune from this type of threat. |
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davochest
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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If you have any idea about the esl game its the schools that hire teachers that improve the ability of their Ss that always do well in the long run. I dont care what they look like. If they kick ass in the class room and are good at motivating Ss to get off their backsides and work, Ill hire them any old day of the week over your skinny, blue eyed blondies.. This is my point from my original post. How does appearance or sex constitute a better teacher? Think back to the best teachers you had. None of mine were hot.
Last edited by davochest on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:24 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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If you were a hagwon owner, you'd do the exact same as you're in business to make money. |
Yeah. I'd also sell meth and hookers out of my hagwon because the return on investment would be so high. I'd also not pay my employees and cheat on paying their taxes and pension because we all know any sort of 'unethical' (what a bourgeoisie concept THAT is) practice is fine and dandy as long as it in the pursuit of my own financial self interest.
Last edited by Old Gil on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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davochest
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| davochest wrote: |
If you were a hagwon owner, you'd do the exact same as you're in business to make money. |
Yeah. I'd also sell meth and hookers out of my hagwon because the return on investment would be so high. I'd also not pay my employees and cheat on paying their taxes and pension because we all know any sort of 'unethical' (what a bourgeoisie concept THAT is) practice is fine and dandy as long as it in the pursuit of my own financial self interest. |
Thats not my quote. CPJ wrote that. check page 5. Maybe you had your fill of paint chips today too. lol |
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CPJ
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| Sincinnatislink wrote: |
| CPJ wrote: |
| Public schools don't really have a preference for a male or female teacher. |
Bull. Shit.
I was flatly told not to apply for a job because "they wanted a female teacher this year" at a school in a community near Bucheon, and all the candidates for the job I lost, after indicating I wanted it for another year, were female. I learned this because I was asked to vet my replacement, without input from my co-teachers, after I was not renewed, against my wishes.
My girlfriend's school directly told her she got the job because they had to choose between having someone start a month into the school year and having a black male teach their kids. |
I was talking about public schools as in SMOE, EPIK, GEPIK. if you look at the teachers that arrive every year for orientation, it's not 80% or 90% female teachers. If anything, there are more male teachers.
When it comes to extending contracts, that may be a different issue as the principal is making that decision. |
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CPJ
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
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If you were a hagwon owner, you'd do the exact same as you're in business to make money. |
Yeah. I'd also sell meth and hookers out of my hagwon because the return on investment would be so high. I'd also not pay my employees and cheat on paying their taxes and pension because we all know any sort of 'unethical' (what a bourgeoisie concept THAT is) practice is fine and dandy as long as it in the pursuit of my own financial self interest. |
I don't see it as that big of a deal for a school to hire a teacher of their choosing. You are always going to have preferences and maybe you should be more discreet about it, but in the end you're going to hire the teacher you want. It just so happens that female, North American and younger teachers are in demand.
I can go pick and choose a hagwon or public school job of my choice. I prefer the ones that have less classes and pay more. Supply and demand! |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| davochest wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| davochest wrote: |
If you were a hagwon owner, you'd do the exact same as you're in business to make money. |
Yeah. I'd also sell meth and hookers out of my hagwon because the return on investment would be so high. I'd also not pay my employees and cheat on paying their taxes and pension because we all know any sort of 'unethical' (what a bourgeoisie concept THAT is) practice is fine and dandy as long as it in the pursuit of my own financial self interest. |
Thats not my quote. CPJ wrote that. check page 5. Maybe you had your fill of paint chips today too. lol |
Maybe learn how to use the quote function? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I don't see it as that big of a deal for a school to hire a teacher of their choosing. You are always going to have preferences and maybe you should be more discreet about it, but in the end you're going to hire the teacher you want. It just so happens that female, North American and younger teachers are in demand.
I can go pick and choose a hagwon or public school job of my choice. I prefer the ones that have less classes and pay more. Supply and demand! |
I agree with you in a way. If we're going to have a capitalist system, the market should drive recruitment practices. If one hagwan hires someone because they are a young female and another hires someone because of their experience and qualifications, on average, the second hagwan should be more profitable as students learn more and re-enrol and parents are more satisfied. At the moment ignorance may be driving owners' decisions but this ignorance will (theoretically) be cured by seeing how successful their practices are compared to other businesses. Just as some football teams in the 70s and early eighties were reluctant to sign black players and Rangers refused to sign catholics, these teams overcame their prejudices because it wasn't profitable to continue them. They eventually realised they had to sign the best people for the job. One view, therefore is a laissez faire attitude should prevail and businesses should be allowed to advertise for who they want. On the other hand, would you allow companies to advertise for non-blacks? Most people would think that is the free market going to far. |
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CPJ
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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That's assuming that the younger (under 30) female teacher can't teach. If she could, then the school would be better off hiring her than a male teacher over 40 with an extensive teaching background. Chances are there will be less conflict at school as well.
As for "black" or "white" teachers, that's a tough one. Obviously, it's not right and it shouldn't matter but even in Canada, I'm sure people are rejected at interviews because they have the wrong color skin, wrong weight, wrong religion, wrong political supporter, wrong whatever. You just won't get the honesty up front and instead will be given BS excuses instead.
If my school asked me to find a new teacher and I really liked my director, then I would hire the younger, more attractive, North American teacher as that's what the director and most parents would prefer. I'm not saying an older, male or 'black' teacher couldn't do as good as or even a better job but why not give them what they want. The customer asks for a vanilla ice cream, then give them a vanilla ice cream. Who cares if chocolate or strawberry tastes better if the customer isn't going to listen. |
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