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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Forget what this forum is about? Just in case you have, it is about TEACHING, not high finance. If Warren Buffet or Bill Gates were to post on a financial message board about becoming rich would you say they don't know what they are talking about? (not that I am comparing myself or anyone here to the above two people...just throwing out an example)
I post on a teaching forum because I've plenty of experience both back home and here. If I were to post about high finance I would post that on an appropriate message board, not here at Dave's.
And I would also make sure that I know what I am talking about. Try it, you might like it. |
The vast majority of expats teaching in Korea do NOT have education degrees but represent pretty much all the majors. When someone with a particular major posts on a topic in his field, I expect him to do so with some expertise, and even more so when he has been a professor in that field. |
And which Dave's poster exactly are we talking about here when it comes to high finance? |
Mises has a masters in economics and ontheway has taught it at the university level, as well as having international economics experience and read tons of books in his field. He has posted in detail on some of these subjects, only for his mini-treatises to be glibly dismissed by some smidgen-heads on here who maybe took Econ 101. It is farcical, really. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Anyone with a smidgeon of economic education knows there are a wide variety of 'schools' of thought |
If ignorance was Rome, you'd be the Pope.
Economics contains truths as timeless and immutable as any discipline. On every planet in the universe, the laws of supply and demand hold. The law that taxes discourage productive behavior holds. The law that recessions are corrections holds. And most importantly of all, the law that anything that is valuable is scarce by definition holds. Likewise, therefore, the law that fiat currency violates the First Law of Economics holds.
The following three short paragraphs reduce your worldview to smitherines.
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There's a new book out, 'The Corruption of Capitalism' by Richard Duncan. The argument is that capitalism works just fine, but it has been corrupted by paper money and government borrowing. Before 1972, the US dollar was tied to gold, and other world currencies were pegged to the US dollar. So there was a limit to how many paper dollars (and pounds, and yen) could be printed. That did cause problems occasionally, but it kept our money sound. Since 1972, there have been no such restraints. Governments could print as much money as they wanted.
As soon as the gold restraint was gone, the [UK] government set about printing so much money that inflation rose to 26%. In the mid1980s there was another boom, corrected only by a another recession, stock market crises and the rest. Governments still didn't learn, and off the cycle went again, bigger and bigger.
It was a huge fake boom, and as always it produced a huge real bust. The first duty of our monetary authorities is to keep the currency sound, not to debauch it. Governments need to be forced to balance their books, with strict spending, borrowing, and debt limits.
http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/tax-and-economy/capitalism-corrupted%3f/ |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Mises has a masters in economics and ontheway has taught it at the university level, as well as having international economics experience and read tons of books in his field. He has posted in detail on some of these subjects, only for his mini-treatises to be glibly dismissed by some smidgen-heads on here who maybe took Econ 101. It is farcical, really. |
Since mises himself said that everything he learned in graduate school is garbage (or something like that), his having a masters degree isn't much of a qualification. He disagrees with most professional economists, or, to turn it around, most of the experts disagree with mises. Mises may be fringe minority, but at least he is still within the realm of rational plausibility and on the fringe of real economics . Even if mises if largely correct, glibly dismissing the vast majority of professional economists who disagree with him would be even more farcical. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Let's not get carried away here. Anyone with a first grade understanding of mathematics can see that America is in financial doom.
Actually, a first grade education might not even be necessary. Last fall, on our way home from a football game, my three year old nephew was asking a lot of questions when he saw the dozens of dirty people laying on the sidewalks on Broadway near Neyland Stadium in Knoxville. My brother explained to him that those people didn't have houses to sleep in. My nephew asked him, "Did they waste their money?" That three year old probably understands economics better than Geithner or Obama, since they continue to waste our money and drive America into financial disaster.
As far as living in Korea instead of America when the shit hits the fan in earnest...it sounds okay, but I'm not completely sold on the idea. If the Korean economy tanks, they'll blame foreigners. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Mises has a masters in economics and ontheway has taught it at the university level, as well as having international economics experience and read tons of books in his field. He has posted in detail on some of these subjects, only for his mini-treatises to be glibly dismissed by some smidgen-heads on here who maybe took Econ 101. It is farcical, really. |
Even if mises if largely correct, glibly dismissing the vast majority of professional economists who disagree with him would be even more farcical. |
From where does their authority and commanded respect come?
Or, maybe the mainstream (vast majority) has completely discredited itself. Maybe the mainstream are most similar to astrologists and should be treated as such. Maybe, just maybe, respect should be given to those who have been most consistently correct all along? Those who were correct come from different perspectives, but are entirely out of the mainstream. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Where did I say I don't know about economics? |
You implied it when you wrote that ESL teachers (including yourself) don't know what they're talking about in regards to economics/finance. Obviously.
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(bolding mine)
Any particular reason you are lying about what I said? I never wrote any such thing. Go back through this thread and see for yourself.
You might consider leaving this thread to spare yourself any further humiliation. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| ... ontheway has taught it at the university level, as well as having international economics experience and read tons of books in his field. He has posted in detail on some of these subjects, only for his mini-treatises to be glibly dismissed by some smidgen-heads on here who maybe took Econ 101. It is farcical, really. |
If being educated and working in the field amounts to authority on economics, then you're completely wrong to back ontheway's lunatic "every government ever was socialist and socialism is inherently evil" ravings, because most professional economists -- and most of the people knowledgable in economics on this board -- disagree with him. Hell, in the last discussion about Libertarians the other Libertarians were distancing themselves from ontheway quite openly, and when we discuss the specifics of the models they suggest, none of them are even close to ontheway's.
You can't make an appeal to authority based on experience in a field and then stop short of the logical conclusion. Either experience matters -- in which case the majority of experienced people in the field disagreeing with ontheway means you should be attack him rather than defending him -- or (as I think) only ideas and their truth values matter -- in which case your point is completely invalid. Either way, your insult is totally unjustified. For whatever reason, you've been taken in by ontheway's totally dataless claims about how the world could be. And that's fine, cheerlead for him if you want, but don't insult the overwhelming majority of us who think he's just plain wrong with his 0% pollution, moon cities, and so forth. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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When I go to functions put on by libertarians (I hate that word so much) we don't talk about fire departments. We don't talk about much other than 1) war 2) the war on drugs 3) the Fed 4) civil liberties 5) etc. The rest is really incidental.
I do not care if a private fire department would be more efficient or not. I do not care if all the government land is divided up and given to the people. I do care about 'us' no longer killing people I have no beef with. I do care about Banksters earning millions and potheads going to jail. I do care about disgusting government distortions that make the country fat, sick, addicted and dependent.
Libertarians are terrible on the internet. They get dogmatic (I'm guilty of this sometimes). But on balance, it is a worldview where violence is extremely rare and organized violence (state violence) a thing of the past. It's Utopian, I know.
So Ron Paul rants about the UN and abortion and other things I either disagree with him about or just don't care about. But he is our ONLY hope to end the violence, wars and the rest. So I support him. My fake vote will never, ever, ever, ever go to a fraud like Obama. Frack that *beep*. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Where did I say I don't know about economics? |
You implied it when you wrote that ESL teachers (including yourself) don't know what they're talking about in regards to economics/finance. Obviously.
. |
(bolding mine)
Any particular reason you are lying about what I said? I never wrote any such thing. Go back through this thread and see for yourself.
You might consider leaving this thread to spare yourself any further humiliation. |
I think what you mean is I should leave this thread to spare you from further humiliation (not going to happen).
Here's what you wrote verbatim:
| Quote: |
I post on a teaching forum because I've plenty of experience both back home and here. If I were to post about high finance I would post that on an appropriate message board, not here at Dave's.
And I would also make sure that I know what I am talking about. Try it, you might like it. |
The implication here is OBVIOUSLY that you think nobody on a teaching forum like Dave's has experience enough to post about high finance, and that we don't know what we're talking about. This also means that you, as a teacher, don't know what you are talking about (unless you were trying to say you're somehow a special?? an exception??). Give me a break. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Where did I say I don't know about economics? |
You implied it when you wrote that ESL teachers (including yourself) don't know what they're talking about in regards to economics/finance. Obviously.
. |
(bolding mine)
Any particular reason you are lying about what I said? I never wrote any such thing. Go back through this thread and see for yourself.
You might consider leaving this thread to spare yourself any further humiliation. |
I think what you mean is I should leave this thread to spare you from further humiliation (not going to happen).
Here's what you wrote verbatim:
| Quote: |
I post on a teaching forum because I've plenty of experience both back home and here. If I were to post about high finance I would post that on an appropriate message board, not here at Dave's.
And I would also make sure that I know what I am talking about. Try it, you might like it. |
The implication here is OBVIOUSLY that you think nobody on a teaching forum like Dave's has experience enough to post about high finance, and that we don't know what we're talking about. This also means that you, as a teacher, don't know what you are talking about (unless you were trying to say you're somehow a special?? an exception??). Give me a break. |
Implication is not the issue here (and unless you claim to able to read my mind there is no way you can tell this). The issue is what you claimed I WROTE.
You know the difference I take it?
You said and I quote "you wrote that ESL teachers (including yourself) don't know what they are talking about in regards to economics/finance"
Only I never wrote that so that is a lie.
And JFYI that was not what I was implying. Read it again more carefully. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
So Ron Paul rants about the UN and abortion and other things I either disagree with him about or just don't care about. But he is our ONLY hope to end the violence, wars and the rest. So I support him. My fake vote will never, ever, ever, ever go to a fraud like Obama. Frack that *beep*. |
Exxxactly |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Mises has a masters in economics and ontheway has taught it at the university level, as well as having international economics experience and read tons of books in his field. He has posted in detail on some of these subjects, only for his mini-treatises to be glibly dismissed by some smidgen-heads on here who maybe took Econ 101. It is farcical, really. |
Since mises himself said that everything he learned in graduate school is garbage (or something like that), his having a masters degree isn't much of a qualification. He disagrees with most professional economists, or, to turn it around, most of the experts disagree with mises. Mises may be fringe minority, but at least he is still within the realm of rational plausibility and on the fringe of real economics . Even if mises if largely correct, glibly dismissing the vast majority of professional economists who disagree with him would be even more farcical. |
This is just a run-of-the-mill ad populum fallacy. So what if he disagrees with 'most professional economists,' I'd still like to see an argument showing how he does and why its wrong. And it doesn't really answer bacasper's concern, namely that Ya-Ta and TUM (who presumably have little professional economic training) are dismissing the economic theories of two posters who have extensive economic training.
Mises' biggest vulnerability is his cynicism. But whatever, that may hurt how many people he persuades but goes little to assail the truth of what he says. His opponents' vulnerability is that they tend to attack mises rather than mises' ideas. That's a much greater problem. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| ontheway has taught it at the university level, |
I don't believe it, really? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Mises has a masters in economics and ontheway has taught it at the university level, as well as having international economics experience and read tons of books in his field. He has posted in detail on some of these subjects, only for his mini-treatises to be glibly dismissed by some smidgen-heads on here who maybe took Econ 101. It is farcical, really. |
Since mises himself said that everything he learned in graduate school is garbage (or something like that), his having a masters degree isn't much of a qualification. He disagrees with most professional economists, or, to turn it around, most of the experts disagree with mises. Mises may be fringe minority, but at least he is still within the realm of rational plausibility and on the fringe of real economics . Even if mises if largely correct, glibly dismissing the vast majority of professional economists who disagree with him would be even more farcical. |
This is just a run-of-the-mill ad populum fallacy. So what if he disagrees with 'most professional economists,' I'd still like to see an argument showing how he does and why its wrong. And it doesn't really answer bacasper's concern, namely that Ya-Ta and TUM (who presumably have little professional economic training) are dismissing the economic theories of two posters who have extensive economic training.
Mises' biggest vulnerability is his cynicism. But whatever, that may hurt how many people he persuades but goes little to assail the truth of what he says. His opponents' vulnerability is that they tend to attack mises rather than mises' ideas. That's a much greater problem. |
Where in this thread did I attack Mises? Or for that matter dismiss his economic theories? I merely agreed with Ya-Ta that people who really know what is going on are not likely to be spending time on a obscure Internet chat board.
That doesn't mean (as some people with poor reading comprehension would have it) that there is NO-ONE here with some grasp of the facts and realities. |
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