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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
I'm saying that generally, we associate success with money. |
It is but one general indicator of success. Awards, recognition, medals and qualifications are another. Still more are a satisfying and rewarding personal life, relationships, depth of experience and a variety of achievements.
Money alone means nothing.
A millionaire who can't maintain positive interpersonal relationships is a failure.
A millionaire whom nobody respects is a failure.
A millionaire who gives none of his wealth to those less fortunate is a failure.
A millionaire who lacks honour, humor, love, charity, or consideration is a failure.
And so on.
| Quote: |
| its being able to live at a standard of living higher than where you came. Its being able to move upwards through society via the accumulation of wealth. |
I agree everyone needs a certain basic standard of living no matter where they are from. (Clean water, food and shelter etc). But the problem is the earth does not have enough resources to provide the high standard of living you envision to everyone.
| YaTaBoy wrote: |
| we usually find that those living in rich countries are much happier than those living in poor countries.... |
I doubt that. the human mind is programmed to focus on and stress about problems no matter how small, or where it finds itself.
A woman in africa might be upset about having to walk 10 miles for water every day. But a woman in the US will be equally upset about the fact she has to work alongside someone she dislikes in the office. Both women will suffer the same symptoms and levels of anxiety.
Even multimillionaires live stressed-out lives preoccupied with problems. Its just relative to circumstance.
There is no state wherein all problems and strains dissapear. They just change with different scenery. |
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Jeonmunka
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Today I lay down on my bed and for no apparent reason got a contented and happy demeanour. I smiled and called to my son and he came and lay down with me.
Now, in my stressful jobless incomless period of time at present, with almost no furnishings not even a frig in my house, I find it very poignant that I can find happiness still. But, it is there regardless of materials.
I tried to explain this once to a bunch of graduates and a professor that the best thing of my day was not getting the samples and analyzing them but watching a father delight in his child even within his run-down house with broken windows.
I think we usually chase the wrong things in life. In doing so we often hurt ourselves. We easily get disatisfied with even all the good things we do have. Spouses fight because they want more income from each other etc... yet the answers lie within themselves. It may not be money that is blocking their happiness. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:03 am Post subject: |
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As others have said previously, reputation is a better indicator of success than money.
But reputation and money correlate so closely in Korea and China, don't they? |
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VanIslander

Joined: 18 Aug 2003 Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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i have a korean friend who won't go see his 11 year old son (who lives with the ex-wife) because he says he doesn't have a lot of money. He hasn't seen his son for five years and says it will be a few more years before he can get his business off the ground and make some money.
I told him an 11 year doesn't give a damn about how much his father makes, he just wants to see his dad! I was told I don't understand Koreans. I told him I may not understand HIS sense of pride, but I was pretty sure how the 11 year old boy felt: miserable and missing his dad.
*beep* up values, this modern $$$-status world my korean friend's head lives in |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| *beep* up values, this modern $$$-status world my korean friend's head lives in |
I reckon the issue isn't money in itself but an inability to fulfill his duties. No? I understand Korean relationships to be more about duties than emotion. |
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VanIslander

Joined: 18 Aug 2003 Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| I reckon the issue isn't money in itself but an inability to fulfill his duties. No? I understand Korean relationships to be more about duties than emotion. |
nice attempt to save your beloved money's rep there mises
but duty to his son? where's love and caring? where's his sense of relationship to his son? ... bah... i get so worked up about this... my friend probably is carrying around some sense of duty that keeps him from contacting his son
most korean adult friends seem waaaaay more obsessed with their parents than their children, with meeting expectations/duties and wellbeing of mom than with their own children. it sure seems like a 'honour thy parents, ignore thy child' society sometimes, with the priorities the inverse of back home
*head shake* |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| most korean adult friends seem waaaaay more obsessed with their parents than their children, with meeting expectations/duties and wellbeing of mom than with their own children. it sure seems like a 'honour thy parents, ignore thy child' society sometimes, with the priorities the inverse of back home |
Well, that's what I mean (the part I bolded). It's a different culture, right? I just don't think wealth is the primary issue. A Korean man sees his relationships in terms of his responsibilities to those relationships, and in the event that he can't meet those responsibilities he will withdraw until he can.
I'm not saying it is right or wrong. However, I will say that North American men could learn a hell of a lot about familial responsibility from East Asians. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| stoned wrote: |
| westerners, what is success to you? |
A job that has the respect and admiration of the intellegensia and allows a large degree of freedom. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
What else is a factor of "success" than money?
Successful athletes make the most money in their sport.
Successful businessmen make a lot of money.
Successful educators get paid the most money.
Successful writers sell the most books and make the most money.
Money is a measure of success. If you don't have money, you aren't successful. The poll didn't ask what made you happy, or what made you feel better. It asked if money is an important sign of success.
And yes, it is. The more successful you are, the more money you make. Success and Money are correlated.
There are exceptions. I don't expect the most successful Buddhist Monk to be a Millionaire.
Seriously, what else could measure success? The number of people on your Facebook friends list? The number of socks you own? What else, besides money, would be a great measure of success, across many different professions and fields? |
Health, love, children, friendship, and achievements at work are all more important than having lots of money. Money's nice and you don't want to be short of it, but it won't guarantee you any of those other more important things, so if 'success' means you have to sacrifice these human values for the sake of money, then it's empty.
I hate people who want to dominate others through money, because they don't value people as people. |
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austinchauncey
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Location: seoul
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Koreans Most Materialistic People in the World |
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| zeppelin wrote: |
| 4 months left wrote: |
But respondents in Western countries regard money as a less important indicator of success. A mere 27 percent of Canadians thought money spells success, followed by Swedes (28 percent), Dutch (29 percent), and French (32 percent). |
I guess respondents in Western Countries have less memories of famine and complete poverty. |
Despite India's rapid development, poverty is commonplace yet they were second to Korea. Hmmm.
Well, even if you wanted to explain the focus on wealth on the memory of recent poverty, how could you explain away the absurd focus on looks? I'm not going to say looks don't matter. They do. I'm not blind. Compared to other Americans, I'd rank myself in the top 5% of looks-obsessed which I find unhealthy though I focus on my own looks while Koreans seem equally obsessed with their looks as well as that of others... maybe top 20% on money-driven. Still, I feel very granola when compared to Koreans.
Signs of success:
*having a sense of purpose and fulfilling it everyday
*circle of friends
*worthwhile work
*contribution to humankind
*wisdom
*happiness
*good marriage/partnership
*if one decides to adopt or procreate... balanced people who will repeat the cycle
*leaving the world a better place when you make the grand exit |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Life expectancy by country:
1. Japan
2. Hong Kong
3. Iceland
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193. Zambia
194. Mozambique
195. Swaziland
I enjoy affairs of the heart just as much as the next man, but they won't shelter me from the elements nor put food on the table.
| Privateer wrote: |
| children |
Fertility rate by country:
1. Niger
2. Guinea-Bissau
3. Afghanistan
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155. Netherlands
156. Luxembourg
157. Belgium
Clearly, children are more important than money is an oversimplification
| Privateer wrote: |
| friendship |
Friends can lead us to choose wicked paths
| Privateer wrote: |
| and achievements at work |
That surely depends on the achievement and the work
| Privateer wrote: |
| are all more important than having lots of money |
important is subjective |
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austinchauncey
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Location: seoul
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:44 am Post subject: |
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You're right. Importance is subjective as is success in general. Success to me means doing a good job in life... which is also subjective. To me, Bill Gates is a success yet Donald Trump is not. Audrey Hepburn yes, Marilyn Monroe not-so-much. Betty Ford and Eleanor Roosevelt are, but Laura Bush and Jackie O aren't. Our values dictate our perceptions of success.
Remember that not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted. Social scientists or whoever came up with this experiment need to accept that. Money is easy to count and can be adjusted for whatever factors necessary to make a comparison.
On the other hand, we can't really measure friendship, "love", etc. |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think money is unimportant, because you need a certain amount to live well and to have a good life.
That said, money is not my idea of the most important measure of success. It is a measure, but to me personally, not a very important one. I'm really not saying this because it's politically correct, I actually feel this way. To me, more important (once you get past the basic level of money to be able to live well):
- happiness
- positive impact on others (eg, through volunteering, or even just in your own circle of friends of making people smile)
- health
- good friends and family (though I admit to not being very close to a lot of my family, especially my parents)
- having an open mind, being positive about life and always continuing to learn. (In general: being a decent person)
- being passionate about something (anything!)
Someone without much of those things but with a lot of money is NOT someone I am jealous of.
Of course if a million dollars fell out of the sky and whacked me on the head, sure, that would be cool, but I'm not going to sacrifice my life and my happiness for more money. I'm not going to lie or cheat for money either, I also feel that would make me less successful, not more. |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:39 am Post subject: |
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To achieve ultimate peace of mind one needs to awaken one's dormant love of God, the source of everything.
Money is largely irrelevant - one can be either rich or poor.
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Lecture51.html |
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pkang0202

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:46 am Post subject: |
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For those of you who don't care about money, contact me.
I'll give you my bank account info and I'll be more than happy to take your money from you, to ease your burden on the unhappiness it is causing you. You don't want to? Why not? I thought money wasn't important?
If you have recognition, family, friends, and your health then please, by all means, send me your money. You don't need it anymore because you are successful. No need to be burdened by your cash. Put your money where your mouth is. (Pun intended) |
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